Wheel Balance Do-Over Coming Up

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So I ditched the stock 16" steel wheels with vinyl wheel covers as well as the Bridgestone Dueler 687's that came on the Forester. In October I bought new 17" alloy wheel rims in the correct OE offset and width and new all season's. Bought rims and tires from different vendors due to the Nokian tires I wanted not being available from where I bought the rims (tirerack). Had local shop do the install. I've been driving on the combo since late October and I think they're broken in enough to take it back for a do-over on the balancing. Mainly due to minor but noticeable (to Mister OCD... me) vibration at interstate speeds. They used clip-ons on the inner rim and stick-ons for the inside of the wheel towards the front. I can't be 100% sure the vibes I'm feeling aren't just the stiffer tires transmitting more road surface irregularities than the stock tires. The stock tires were 96 load index whereas the Nokians are 103 load index with XL reinforced sidewalls-- this on a Subaru Forester which is a relatively light vehicle for these tires (Nokian WRG2SUV). But the shop offers free re-balance for the life of the mount, so I'm going to have them check the balance anyhow. Tire pressure adjust doesn't seem to effect the vibes, is why it makes me think it might be balance related. Plus its very busy shop and I think they might not have spent the time to do the best precision balance job that could have been done.
 
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
I am going to take a guess that there will be no difference.

Lone Ranger - let us know what the result is.


+1

Sams Club does a re-balance when they rotate tires and I never notice anything.
 
If the vibration is really slight it could be the tires are slightly out of round. But before you reach that conclusion, ask the tire shop when their balance machine is going to be recalibrated and arrange your rebalance just after that.
 
The tires better not be out of round. This is 2011, not 1911. Mankind can orbit the Earth, put men on the moon, and even master the precision necessary to land probes on Mars yet we still can't mass produce truly round tires? That is kind of hilarious in an Epic Fail sort of way.
 
Tires can come from the factor out of round. In addition, running tires that are out of balance can become out of round due to uneven wear. Regardless of the current year (2011), man made is man made and perfection is generally not a viable option.
 
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
The tires better not be out of round. This is 2011, not 1911. Mankind can orbit the Earth, put men on the moon, and even master the precision necessary to land probes on Mars yet we still can't mass produce truly round tires? That is kind of hilarious in an Epic Fail sort of way.


Just to continue your analogy, we had quite a few fatalities in the process of getting men to the moon, so we should expect some hiccups in tires as well.

Further, they spent a TON of money on the space race, so unless you are willing to pay thousands of dollars for a toilet seat, you shouldn't expect a product subject to the law of supply and demand to be perfect

Besides, nothing is perfectly round, and with tires, it's a matter of degree. In fact, there are still vehicle manufacturers who purposely offset the center hole of the wheel to make up for the fact that tires can be slightly out of round.
 
Thanks, I am not familiar with the balancer brand they use.
I would want a Mid-Morning Appointment though.
The balancers internal components will have been warmed up & the Techs won't be tired yet.
Good Luck

PS Just one more thing, Is the Hub Bore size the same as the old rims?

Thanks, Jim
 
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
In fact, there are still vehicle manufacturers who purposely offset the center hole of the wheel to make up for the fact that tires can be slightly out of round.
Capri, can you expand on that a little? Offset to me would create an out of round condition with a perfect assembly ... but, using a dial indicator, perhaps allow one of the (4, 5, or 6 depending on number of lugs) positions to be picked to make it better ... does ANYONE in a retail tire shop do that?
 
AKIAK the bore size is the same. Cosmetic center cap on new rims covers it. New rims do have plastic centering ring, had big orange sticker on them when they came in box about "ATTN This wheel equipped with centering ring" for the installer to take note of. Probably a lot of it is just from going to a beefy 103 load index tire with stiffer sidewalls. I'm running 32 psi front, 30 rear which is door placard tire inflation on Foresters equipped with 17" alloys from the factory (my base model had 16" steel rims placarded at 30/29psi f/r). I tried running them 27/26psi f/r which is what the load index cross reference table indicated would match the 30/29psi of the OE 96 load index tires, but not much noticeable difference in ride.
 
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
The tires better not be out of round. This is 2011, not 1911. Mankind can orbit the Earth, put men on the moon, and even master the precision necessary to land probes on Mars yet we still can't mass produce truly round tires? That is kind of hilarious in an Epic Fail sort of way.


Hilarious. Disgusting. Reality.

I swear, tires are less round today than they were 20 years ago. Seriously, I consider myself lucky if I get 4 round tires at any given time.

I've had entire sets swapped out due to being shaped like kindergarden clay saucer projects.
 
But HTF can it be (out-of-round) in an age of computer aided manufacturing, laser cut precision, and advanced chemistry? That's the part I don't get. I would get it if we were hand making tires, but with precision that goes into building engines with micro machining tolerances never before achieved (necessitating factory fill of 0W20 syn, etc.) yet we as a species cannot get it done accurately when the material is rubber compounds and polyester?
 
After the rubber is wrapped (no lasers here) they are vulcanized in a heated mold (no precision machining). The molds are used again and again and are subject to wear and heat distortion. The little bit of extra rubber from the wrapping can be seen on the tire when new as tiny projections. You can also see where the mold seals by the sheet of rubber that seeps between the matings.
 
Spock was a Vulcan and was very accurate, so one would think Vulcanizing would be a precise process. ;~)
 
I think that if anything is amiss, it may be your new rims with the hub rings.

That denotes a different size hub bore from stock, and is the cause of many an up-fitter of rims troubles.

Good Luck, and Keep us posted.
 
Do you think torqueing the lugs a little tighter than published spec (from manual) might help if its a hub ring issue? Published spec is 100nm ~ 74 lb-ft. I have them at 75 lb-ft now. Subaru specifies same 100nm lug torque spec for both steel and alloy rims.
 
Originally Posted By: George Bynum
Originally Posted By: CapriRacer
In fact, there are still vehicle manufacturers who purposely offset the center hole of the wheel to make up for the fact that tires can be slightly out of round.
Capri, can you expand on that a little? Offset to me would create an out of round condition with a perfect assembly ... but, using a dial indicator, perhaps allow one of the (4, 5, or 6 depending on number of lugs) positions to be picked to make it better ... does ANYONE in a retail tire shop do that?


First, we are only talking about a few thousandths of an inch. - and we are talking about assemblies that have been match mounted - low point of the wheel to the high point of the tire.

- AND - Yes, a perfect tire mounted on a wheel with such an offset would not be perfect.

- BUT - the idea behind this is that on the average, there will be more assemblies within the insensitivity range of the vhicle - and the net effect is fewer ride complaints.

- and tires have actually gotten much better over the years. It's just that vehicle have egenarlly gotten much more sensitive.

Dial indicators? This was always a labor intensive process. The Hunter GSP9700 does this much easier and quicker - which is why I thoroghly endore the product.
 
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