A very interesting thread I came accross on the Hard Core Sledder site. http://www.hardcoresledder.com/forums/298-iq-chassis/547495-oil-i-know-i-know.html
Chemist guy tests 2 stroke oil
- Thread starter dudg
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Long read - is there a page with a link to results? What page?
^Agreed. Bit much at 31 pages, or is it scattered all over the place? Looks like I'll be needing a good hour to sort through it...
Frankly "chemist" sounds like a hack. He never says exactly how he is doing this RPM test. Just that he has some mysterious giant machine that spits all the numbers out. Too many numbers to type. I'm skeptical. But I'm still reading, page 19 (no I haven't been on it all day. I just came back inside.
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The R.P.M. Unit (machine) was built with a stainless steel piston that run's up to 16,000 r.p.m's, I add E-10 gas into the port hole and add the oil to a 50-1 mix and run it untill the database software on the computer tell's me at what r.p.m. the oil break's down, It also tell's me the viscosity under load presure, was there any foam under heat and how much carbon build up under heat. The unit gets to a 116 fahrenheit. I have noticed that with ethanol the carbon build up is very low with all oils, because ethanol is a strong solvent, cleanser, and drying agent. A good synthetic when using E-10 gas is a must, now with Non-ethanol gas the oils will read about 100 to 150 RPM's higher.
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First off under the microscope this oil is not a synthetic oil....
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First i looked at the oil in my microscope and noticed some thing differnt from the other oil's,
I think for oil advice, stick with BITOG.
The R.P.M. Unit (machine) was built with a stainless steel piston that run's up to 16,000 r.p.m's, I add E-10 gas into the port hole and add the oil to a 50-1 mix and run it untill the database software on the computer tell's me at what r.p.m. the oil break's down, It also tell's me the viscosity under load presure, was there any foam under heat and how much carbon build up under heat. The unit gets to a 116 fahrenheit. I have noticed that with ethanol the carbon build up is very low with all oils, because ethanol is a strong solvent, cleanser, and drying agent. A good synthetic when using E-10 gas is a must, now with Non-ethanol gas the oils will read about 100 to 150 RPM's higher.
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First off under the microscope this oil is not a synthetic oil....
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First i looked at the oil in my microscope and noticed some thing differnt from the other oil's,
I think for oil advice, stick with BITOG.
I agree with Pablo. The guy doesn't write like a true scientist and the testing sounds like the science that went on in the "Back To The Future" movie.
It had to be fake. Continue reading - a couple guys barely challenged him and now he's bailing. Almost sad.
Finally had time to go back over there and catch up on the last 10+ pages. Oof. Nothing changed, just a bunch of... not sure what to call them - very uneducated snowmobile guys attacking a couple other guys with some so-called testing still going on. Oh well...I'll check in a couple weeks!
MolaKule
Staff member
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I tested Klotz TC-W3 and it is a excellent oil,Klotz has 75% molecules that are all uniform,
Wow. This guy can differentiate molecules of different sizes.
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Interceptor just did not cut it for me under viscosity, thermal conductivity of the oil, stability and stress,
So what's his definition of Thermal conductivity and how it affects tests in a meaningful way?
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Update: received some royal purple snow 2-c today, went to the lab, First i looked at the oil in my microscope and noticed some thing differnt from the other oil's, The base oil is all synthetic, But some th ing did not look right so i checked out the royal purple web site to look at the msds and there it was, Iso paraffinic diluent's what is it, Isoparaffinic are branched aliphatic hydrocarbon's and depending on the carbon length range it could be used as a solvent, When diluted it act's like a detergant but is better idea then a strong detergant's,
He can also google wikipedia and almost read PDSs' and MSDS'.
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My cousin is a engineer and built me a r.p.m. unit to test on.
What the heck? His whole family is a bunch of Einsteins.
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I add E-10 gas into the port hole and add the oil to a 50-1 mix and run it untill the database software on the computer tell's me at what r.p.m. the oil break's down, It also tell's me the viscosity under load presure, was there any foam under heat and how much carbon build up under heat.
An amazing array of instrumentation which would cost upwards of a quarter mil.
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This oil is excellent and passed my test.
And what is his (or for that matter the manufacturers) criteria for passing tests. The least he could do is list ASTM tests and their results.
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...and place them in a humidity room (i own one)
No dummy, in the industry it is called a "Humidity Cabinet."
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Amsoil Dominator, pour point -50, This oil has excellent synthetic base stock at 75%, and 25% high processed oil's, but it has alot of detergent's in the formula, R.P.M. before break down of the viscosity and film strength was 12,002,
One heck of an amazing mircroscope. 12,002 or 12,005 rpms at breakdown or filmstrength in PSI, N.m^2?
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When the oil's are mixed together it will cause a chemical imbalance between the petroleum based and the synthesized chemical compound's, It will also upset the hydrocarbon's.
Don't you just hate it when your hydrocarbons get upset?
Sorry guys, but this person is full of it and the info he is giving out is pure CROC!
I tested Klotz TC-W3 and it is a excellent oil,Klotz has 75% molecules that are all uniform,
Wow. This guy can differentiate molecules of different sizes.
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Interceptor just did not cut it for me under viscosity, thermal conductivity of the oil, stability and stress,
So what's his definition of Thermal conductivity and how it affects tests in a meaningful way?
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Update: received some royal purple snow 2-c today, went to the lab, First i looked at the oil in my microscope and noticed some thing differnt from the other oil's, The base oil is all synthetic, But some th ing did not look right so i checked out the royal purple web site to look at the msds and there it was, Iso paraffinic diluent's what is it, Isoparaffinic are branched aliphatic hydrocarbon's and depending on the carbon length range it could be used as a solvent, When diluted it act's like a detergant but is better idea then a strong detergant's,
He can also google wikipedia and almost read PDSs' and MSDS'.
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My cousin is a engineer and built me a r.p.m. unit to test on.
What the heck? His whole family is a bunch of Einsteins.
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I add E-10 gas into the port hole and add the oil to a 50-1 mix and run it untill the database software on the computer tell's me at what r.p.m. the oil break's down, It also tell's me the viscosity under load presure, was there any foam under heat and how much carbon build up under heat.
An amazing array of instrumentation which would cost upwards of a quarter mil.
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This oil is excellent and passed my test.
And what is his (or for that matter the manufacturers) criteria for passing tests. The least he could do is list ASTM tests and their results.
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...and place them in a humidity room (i own one)
No dummy, in the industry it is called a "Humidity Cabinet."
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Amsoil Dominator, pour point -50, This oil has excellent synthetic base stock at 75%, and 25% high processed oil's, but it has alot of detergent's in the formula, R.P.M. before break down of the viscosity and film strength was 12,002,
One heck of an amazing mircroscope. 12,002 or 12,005 rpms at breakdown or filmstrength in PSI, N.m^2?
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When the oil's are mixed together it will cause a chemical imbalance between the petroleum based and the synthesized chemical compound's, It will also upset the hydrocarbon's.
Don't you just hate it when your hydrocarbons get upset?
Sorry guys, but this person is full of it and the info he is giving out is pure CROC!
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You captured some of the classics - but OMG what a colossal time waster. I forgot about the "cousin" - I think later he says he can't post pictures because it's in the patent process. NOW that is a crock!
It's really sad that those guys are so astray. I guess over the years we have become a bit insulated to just how ignorant the masses really are. One or two new guys are speaking up but it's like fighting giant mountain trolls with a pea shooter. Well the good guys should be invited to come here to learn and discuss. Let the light of knowledge prevail!
It's really sad that those guys are so astray. I guess over the years we have become a bit insulated to just how ignorant the masses really are. One or two new guys are speaking up but it's like fighting giant mountain trolls with a pea shooter. Well the good guys should be invited to come here to learn and discuss. Let the light of knowledge prevail!
I read through the first few pages (s perhaps the answer to my question appears later on) but I wonder what all the fuss is regarding the so-called rpm breakdown, after all, in the case of snowmobile engines, the rev ceilings are typically in the area of @ 8300 rpm (with a few exceptions, notably some of the older Yamaha triple which revved to 8800). Of course, I am talking stock engines here. What good does it do if the oil is resistant to 12,000 rpm if your engine never sees even 75% of that?
You're wrong. Most modern snowmobile engines easily see over 10k rpm. Yamaha sleds which I own easily hit 11-12k. Granted it's a 4-stroke sled and he was testing 2-stroke oil, the 2-stroke sleds hit over 10k as well. Also sounds to me that some here may be [censored] that their amsoil product failed his test. Go figure.
Sorry Jim, but I happen to know a thing or two about sleds, having worked for a sled magazine for over ten years now. The only two Yamahas (both four-strokes) that rev over 10,000 are the Apex (10.5K) and the Phazer (11,250). None of the modern two-strokes (twins) rev over 8300 rpm. Back int eh triple-cylinder days, some revved over this measure, the Yamaha single-pipe triples being the highest stock units with 8800 rpm shift rpm (if your sled is revving higher than this, you need to have your clutches looked at). Now, some modded sleds may rev over the 8 grand range but clutching efficiency goes down significantly once the rpms really climb (why do you think Yam uses gear reduction systems on the Apex and Phazer? Do the math about their actual reduction ratios and you'll see it brings them right back down to the mid-8000 rpm range.... and it's not a coincidence).
Not looking for a [censored] contest but when it comes to sleds, I know a thing or two....
Not looking for a [censored] contest but when it comes to sleds, I know a thing or two....
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What kind of oil you liked Mik? For no smoke, no smell and clean PV's?
I was looking at Maxima BIO 2T.
I was looking at Maxima BIO 2T.
Originally Posted By: slimjim
Also sounds to me that some here may be [censored] that their amsoil product failed his test.
Not at all. The test is so corny and hokey, how would I get [censored]? Besides, Amsoil Dominator passed with flying colors so I should be crowing about that.
Anyone who knows anything about oil can tell the guy is faking it. It's hilarious how ignorant some of the guys on that site are about lubrication. I'm sure they know a TON about their sleds and how to ride them, but they don't know about oil except claims what a person brags on or whatever.
Here's an example (just one): The Chemist guys lists his equipment, including two methods of measuring viscosity - and what does he report? Pour point.......
Also sounds to me that some here may be [censored] that their amsoil product failed his test.
Not at all. The test is so corny and hokey, how would I get [censored]? Besides, Amsoil Dominator passed with flying colors so I should be crowing about that.
Anyone who knows anything about oil can tell the guy is faking it. It's hilarious how ignorant some of the guys on that site are about lubrication. I'm sure they know a TON about their sleds and how to ride them, but they don't know about oil except claims what a person brags on or whatever.
Here's an example (just one): The Chemist guys lists his equipment, including two methods of measuring viscosity - and what does he report? Pour point.......
If you read it on the internet it has to be true.
Its all B-S.
I posted a negative post in that thread and the Mods deleted it. Yea, the Chemist can see the synthetic oil molecules in his microscope....
He claimed Interceptor in not 100% synthetic because he saw the molecules were not all uniform sizes..
Those guys on that site are lapping it all up though.
I posted a negative post in that thread and the Mods deleted it. Yea, the Chemist can see the synthetic oil molecules in his microscope....
He claimed Interceptor in not 100% synthetic because he saw the molecules were not all uniform sizes..
Those guys on that site are lapping it all up though.
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