Be Careful-synthetic 2 stroke rust control

[occity79]

As many are winterizing their small (2 stroke) engines now, just my opinion to those using 2 stroke full synthetic oil:

Make SURE it is rated FC or FD , or it has multi-purpose FC/FD and TCW-3 rating so that it has a good rust prevention additive.

Most synthetic oils that are 'racing' oil types lack rust prevention additives, and this will result in rust, and it doesn't take long either.

I found that rust will be more likely to kill a 2 stroke than wear of the engine. I like to fog my OPE engines the same way you would fog and outboard motor, spray into the carb as the engine idles, then remove plug and spray into cylinder and leave piston at TDC . Seal the muffler with a piece of foam air filter.

 

[JHZR2]

Good info!

 

[hate2work]

Originally Posted By: occity79

I found that rust will be more likely to kill a 2 stroke than wear of the engine.


Are you being serious? In 33 years of working on 2 strokes, in one of the wettest parts of the country, I can't think of even one instance where rust killed a 2 stroke engine.

Maybe you meant to say corrosion? Especially if they get used around salt water, the mg and al will corrode quite a bit, and if the right parts are affected, that will kill one for sure. But that has nothing to do with the type of oil that gets burned in the combustion chamber

 

[occity79]

Originally Posted By: hate2work
Originally Posted By: occity79

I found that rust will be more likely to kill a 2 stroke than wear of the engine.


Are you being serious? In 33 years of working on 2 strokes, in one of the wettest parts of the country, I can't think of even one instance where rust killed a 2 stroke engine.

Maybe you meant to say corrosion? Especially if they get used around salt water, the mg and al will corrode quite a bit, and if the right parts are affected, that will kill one for sure. But that has nothing to do with the type of oil that gets burned in the combustion chamber

I have 3 engines that I am repairing for friends that used a "racing" 2 stroke oil, and they are RUSTED, (rings, con rod, cranks)! Those kinds of synthetics are not good for occasional use, or if the motor is stored for weeks or months at a time.
I won't say the brand because any brand of these specialized racing oils will not give corrosion protection to these internal parts (as a FD or TCW3 oil would have).

 

[boraticus]

That's an interesting hypothesis. I'm just curious how you narrowed down that it was the type of oil that you claim caused the problems?

Being that you're using racing fuel, could it be possible that the fuel may be a contributing factor?

I cannot attest to the properties of synthetic oil being a contributing factor because I do not and never have used it in my two cycle engines. However, I do have more than a bit of a problem regarding your dire warning of engine rust/damage if not fogged or given special treatment for storage. I've got a number of two cycle engines that have been stored in unheated buildings for years on end and show NO rust or corrosion on the internals.

I rebuilt several vintage two cycle motorcycle engines on motorcycles that are over 35 years old and spent ten or fifteen of those years unused and un-started out in a drafty unheated barn in North Dakota.

I just pulled two old snowmobiles from my back yard that had sat outside unused with covers on them from March til now. I opened up the Fuji engine on one of them to inspect the head and cylinders. No signs of rust there either.

Possibly being on the coast has something to do with your corrosion/rust problems. I know from my experience it's a non issue to put engines away with no more than the carb and fuel tank drained.

It would be interesting to know what kind of engines you're having problems with and the type of fuel you were using.

 

[occity79]

Morning;

I was surprised to find this also, the items are 3 echo's (a trimmer and blower).

I asked what oil he was using and he showed me the bottle of Klotz original techniplate-(not slamming Klotz, I think it was not used for the right application).

These had sat for about 2 months, and we do have very high humidity in the summer months, plus we had record rains this late summer here. After reading up on this oil and (on the back of the bottle) it states, not recommended as a storage lube, (I think Klotz is saying it is not meant to be an after-run oil).

After cleaning everything up with fine bronze wool and flushing out the residues, I reassembled and now he's doing fine.

I still feel wary of these hi-tech oils for occasional use, but I do agree it is not common to see problems like this.

I like for this area oils dual rated for JASO FD and TCW3 (or just use the factory oils).

Valvoline Multi-purpose 2 cycle
Mystik Ultimate HP silver label JT4

 

[Quest]

No experience with Klotz but I'm a Castrol Activo 2T (full-syn from what I can tell) or Esso semi-syn guy, both meets JASO FC standards (can't find any JASO FD oils here yet).

None of the trimmers, 2T engines (I got one of those HF/Chicago 2T portable genset also), etc. suffered from your so-called "full syn" causing rust problems to begin with, given that we live in soggy PNW region.

oil issues with Klotz product? perhaps so.

Q.

 

[FastGame]

My 1973 Husqvarna 250 WR has used nothing but Klotz its whole life (still alive), never had any rust problems including the steel gas tank. Used the same premix in all my weed wackers and they are rust free.

http://www.klotzlube.com/techsheet.asp?ID=48&submit2=View

 

[Cujet]

Redline Racing Oil, 2t, is a known rust/corrosion promoter. I lost a weedwacker due to massive internal rust, along with my Husqvarna 360WXC crankshaft. It was unbelievable, the rust and corrosion was everywhere and unstoppable.

Mobil 1 MX2t and Castrol TT-S, both fully synthetic, no problems what so ever.

 

[G.Frost]

I've used Red Line 2 Stroke Racing Oil for many years in many applications and never had any rust or corrosion issues. The elixir kept a small fleet (3-4) of Puch mopeds running clean, flawless, and smelling sweet for many years in the '80-90s. I used it for 12+ years in a circa.'91 Craftsman chainsaw. (finally done in by running without an air cleaner) Never any rust or corrosion issues, and these were kept in an unheated metal shed during winter rainy season in Sierras.

I am using it today in Stihl Chainsaw and blower, Echo weed whacker. It has always provided excellent performance with no need to clean plugs, ports, or spark screens. A clean sweet smelling 2-cycle oil. (I also use Sta-bil in the gas as well.)


I also used Mobil 1 2T for a few years when I got a bunch on clearance. Now that it is gone, it's back to the Red Line for me.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: G.Frost
I've used Red Line 2 Stroke Racing Oil for many years in many applications and never had any rust or corrosion issues. The elixir kept a small fleet (3-4) of Puch mopeds running clean, flawless, and smelling sweet for many years in the '80-90s. I used it for 12+ years in a circa.'91 Craftsman chainsaw. (finally done in by running without an air cleaner) Never any rust or corrosion issues, and these were kept in an unheated metal shed during winter rainy season in Sierras.

I am using it today in Stihl Chainsaw and blower, Echo weed whacker. It has always provided excellent performance with no need to clean plugs, ports, or spark screens. A clean sweet smelling 2-cycle oil. (I also use Sta-bil in the gas as well.)


I also used Mobil 1 2T for a few years when I got a bunch on clearance. Now that it is gone, it's back to the Red Line for me.


We are probably in very different environments. Here in wonderful South Florida, humidity is near 100% for a large portion of the year.

My favorite saying: "God it's hot, but at least it's humid".

 

[G.Frost]

If you are anywhere near ocean salt spray, (can move far inland with wind and storm), that is a major problem for corrosion.
Aluminum window frames on the coast here are toast in 10 years.
90%+ humidity where I am occurs frequently only in the winter with average temps in the 40's. (97%, 47F this morning, with mushrooms) Summers are most always dry, 40% or less.

 

[tdi-rick]

If you use an ester oil that uses calcium sulfonate as an additive you should be covered.

 

[occity79]

Originally Posted By: tdi-rick
If you use an ester oil that uses calcium sulfonate as an additive you should be covered.


Thank you for this info, Tdi-Rick, what you state is true, as I had asked a couple of the oil makers about this and they wrote back stating that their calcium additives and tackifiers will protect the ferrous metals from corrosion for extended storage periods.

To see rust inside a two stoke that was otherwise well cared-for was an eye-opener for me, so I realized there is more to oil than just wear protection and film strength.


Motul 800 is a good example , they list Calcium as an additive right on the bottle, so that sounds like a great oil overall.

I now look for some notation on rust/corrosion in an oil's data sheet not just how well it does in deposit control or wear.

One oil company noted that the JASO FD spec does not directly address corrosion protection of the engine !

 

[tdi-rick]

Originally Posted By: occity79

[snip]

Motul 800 is a good example , they list Calcium as an additive right on the bottle, so that sounds like a great oil overall.

[snip]


Funnily enough my oil of choice ATM in my saws

Calcium Sulfonate is added for wet weather running in bikes and karts, it stops carby slides sticking whilst racing in the rain, amongst other things such as being an anti-corrosive and adding significantly to the EP levels of a lube.