TCW3??
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Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: cchase
Many people run 2-cycle, air-cooled leaf blowers at full RPM for hours on end.
Full RPM on a leaf blower is around 3-4K and it is relatively stress free.
What does that have to do with the appropriateness of TC-W3 for air-cooled applications? It would seem to indicate that TC-W3 is more robust and would work well for air-cooled applications.
My question is borne from the statements in this thread that indicate that using TC-W3 in air-cooled, 2-cycle engines would be damaging. I'm trying to understand why companies say that is not the case.
You refused to understand so that is why you don't understand. For non-stressful usage of 2 cycle motors such as lawn implements, you don't need to use the TC rated 2T oil. Water crafts are required to use the TCWx oil because of the EPA mandate and not because it can't use TC oil. No one in the 2 cycle racing circle is using the TCW3 oil because it is by design not as robust as the TC oil (i.e. less SAPS anti-wear additives). Check my VOA of 2T oils in the archive and you will see the different between TCW3 and TC oils.
Bottom line is that if you are not racing or abused your equipments then you don't need TC oil. Also, use TCW3 oil if you care about the environment.
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: cchase
Many people run 2-cycle, air-cooled leaf blowers at full RPM for hours on end.
Full RPM on a leaf blower is around 3-4K and it is relatively stress free.
What does that have to do with the appropriateness of TC-W3 for air-cooled applications? It would seem to indicate that TC-W3 is more robust and would work well for air-cooled applications.
My question is borne from the statements in this thread that indicate that using TC-W3 in air-cooled, 2-cycle engines would be damaging. I'm trying to understand why companies say that is not the case.
You refused to understand so that is why you don't understand. For non-stressful usage of 2 cycle motors such as lawn implements, you don't need to use the TC rated 2T oil. Water crafts are required to use the TCWx oil because of the EPA mandate and not because it can't use TC oil. No one in the 2 cycle racing circle is using the TCW3 oil because it is by design not as robust as the TC oil (i.e. less SAPS anti-wear additives). Check my VOA of 2T oils in the archive and you will see the different between TCW3 and TC oils.
Bottom line is that if you are not racing or abused your equipments then you don't need TC oil. Also, use TCW3 oil if you care about the environment.
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: cchase
Many people run 2-cycle, air-cooled leaf blowers at full RPM for hours on end.
Full RPM on a leaf blower is around 3-4K and it is relatively stress free.
What does that have to do with the appropriateness of TC-W3 for air-cooled applications? It would seem to indicate that TC-W3 is more robust and would work well for air-cooled applications.
My question is borne from the statements in this thread that indicate that using TC-W3 in air-cooled, 2-cycle engines would be damaging. I'm trying to understand why companies say that is not the case.
You refused to understand so that is why you don't understand. For non-stressful usage of 2 cycle motors such as lawn implements, you don't need to use the TC rated 2T oil. Water crafts are required to use the TCWx oil because of the EPA mandate and not because it can't use TC oil. No one in the 2 cycle racing circle is using the TCW3 oil because it is by design not as robust as the TC oil (i.e. less SAPS anti-wear additives). Check my VOA of 2T oils in the archive and you will see the different between TCW3 and TC oils.
Bottom line is that if you are not racing or abused your equipments then you don't need TC oil. Also, use TCW3 oil if you care about the environment.
I think there's a crossed line here somewhere. I don't claim to understand, or not understand anything. I literally know next to nothing about 2-cycle oil formulations and standards and am very interested in learning. Since the topic was raised that TC-W3 was inappropriate and damaging to air-cooled 2-cycle engines (lawn implements fall into this category) and I noticed on bottles of TC-W3 commonly sold in automotive and hardware stores that reference was made to the lubes being appropriate for these applications, I was left confused.
I don't know anything about the 2-cycle "racing" crowd, or even how it applies to whether I will kill a leaf blower by running TC-W3 in it and I'm not sure after your post I'm any clearer on the subject.
Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: cchase
Many people run 2-cycle, air-cooled leaf blowers at full RPM for hours on end.
Full RPM on a leaf blower is around 3-4K and it is relatively stress free.
What does that have to do with the appropriateness of TC-W3 for air-cooled applications? It would seem to indicate that TC-W3 is more robust and would work well for air-cooled applications.
My question is borne from the statements in this thread that indicate that using TC-W3 in air-cooled, 2-cycle engines would be damaging. I'm trying to understand why companies say that is not the case.
You refused to understand so that is why you don't understand. For non-stressful usage of 2 cycle motors such as lawn implements, you don't need to use the TC rated 2T oil. Water crafts are required to use the TCWx oil because of the EPA mandate and not because it can't use TC oil. No one in the 2 cycle racing circle is using the TCW3 oil because it is by design not as robust as the TC oil (i.e. less SAPS anti-wear additives). Check my VOA of 2T oils in the archive and you will see the different between TCW3 and TC oils.
Bottom line is that if you are not racing or abused your equipments then you don't need TC oil. Also, use TCW3 oil if you care about the environment.
I think there's a crossed line here somewhere. I don't claim to understand, or not understand anything. I literally know next to nothing about 2-cycle oil formulations and standards and am very interested in learning. Since the topic was raised that TC-W3 was inappropriate and damaging to air-cooled 2-cycle engines (lawn implements fall into this category) and I noticed on bottles of TC-W3 commonly sold in automotive and hardware stores that reference was made to the lubes being appropriate for these applications, I was left confused.
I don't know anything about the 2-cycle "racing" crowd, or even how it applies to whether I will kill a leaf blower by running TC-W3 in it and I'm not sure after your post I'm any clearer on the subject.
JHZR2
Staff member
In an automobile application it is an extremely low concentration, and the intent is to get a very thin oily layer on parts to maintain fuel system lubrication, and leverage the detergency to try to keep things somewhat cleanet than they would otherwise (e.g. hard carbon deposits).
It is NOT a SAPS argument. The 2T oils designed for HD are going to have additives in them to support higher temperature, high speed operation.
TCW3 applications have water cooling, lower speed, etc. That and the desire to keep some of the metallic adds out of the waterways drives TCW3. Motorists get the benefit of having less/no catalytic converter harming adds. Regardless of the benefit that a TC oil brings, if it harms the conversion efficiency of a catalyst it is both likely illegal as well as poor economy for a $1600 converter...
It is NOT a SAPS argument. The 2T oils designed for HD are going to have additives in them to support higher temperature, high speed operation.
TCW3 applications have water cooling, lower speed, etc. That and the desire to keep some of the metallic adds out of the waterways drives TCW3. Motorists get the benefit of having less/no catalytic converter harming adds. Regardless of the benefit that a TC oil brings, if it harms the conversion efficiency of a catalyst it is both likely illegal as well as poor economy for a $1600 converter...
I did the math on this in the other post but the problem here is no one bother to search the archive. One ounce of any 2T oil per five gallon of gasoline is not going to kill the converter. It is a myth. The TC oil has very little additives compare to the standard motor oil and GM said burning a quart of motor oil per 2000 miles is normal for a new car. Burning a quart of motor oil per 500 miles is normal in a new Corvette. If it was not for the EPA there would not be any TCWx oils. The EPA is the reason 2T vehicles are going the way of the dinosaurs.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
I did the math on this in the other post but the problem here is no one bother to search the archive. One ounce of any 2T oil per five gallon of gasoline is not going to kill the converter. It is a myth. The TC oil has very little additives compare to the standard motor oil and GM said burning a quart of motor oil per 2000 miles is normal for a new car. Burning a quart of motor oil per 500 miles is normal in a new Corvette. If it was not for the EPA there would not be any TCWx oils. The EPA is the reason 2T vehicles are going the way of the dinosaurs.
Ive seen the math, and it's fine if you choose to have that as your opinion.
But frankly, I dont care to have to hassle with, nor pollute via a poorly operating catalytic converter. Burning a 2T oil versus a TCW3 oil does indeed introduce extra undesired poisons into the system. No thanks. Why is that so tough to understand?
If I can get the effects I desire via a TCW3 oil, why would I want to use something else?
And what is to say that the mechanisms for protection are the same? What's to say that the adds that form deposits and sacrificial layers on the 2T engines are desired in a 4 cycle application?
Most everyone is looking for an oil that is capable of lubricating the fuel system and providing some UCL functionality, not a lot of other stuff.
That's why TCW3 is good.
If I have a 2T engine, then 2T oil will be great.
Ca is well known to create hard deposits and CaSO4 in 4-cycle engines. No thanks.
I did the math on this in the other post but the problem here is no one bother to search the archive. One ounce of any 2T oil per five gallon of gasoline is not going to kill the converter. It is a myth. The TC oil has very little additives compare to the standard motor oil and GM said burning a quart of motor oil per 2000 miles is normal for a new car. Burning a quart of motor oil per 500 miles is normal in a new Corvette. If it was not for the EPA there would not be any TCWx oils. The EPA is the reason 2T vehicles are going the way of the dinosaurs.
Ive seen the math, and it's fine if you choose to have that as your opinion.
But frankly, I dont care to have to hassle with, nor pollute via a poorly operating catalytic converter. Burning a 2T oil versus a TCW3 oil does indeed introduce extra undesired poisons into the system. No thanks. Why is that so tough to understand?
If I can get the effects I desire via a TCW3 oil, why would I want to use something else?
And what is to say that the mechanisms for protection are the same? What's to say that the adds that form deposits and sacrificial layers on the 2T engines are desired in a 4 cycle application?
Most everyone is looking for an oil that is capable of lubricating the fuel system and providing some UCL functionality, not a lot of other stuff.
That's why TCW3 is good.
If I have a 2T engine, then 2T oil will be great.
Ca is well known to create hard deposits and CaSO4 in 4-cycle engines. No thanks.
Apparently you don't understand the math because GM and other auto manufacturers don't care but you do. All within specs 4T engines consume engine oil in one form or another and they do not suffer premature converter death. TCWx oil is in no way near the robustness of TC oil. Racers don't use TCWx oil for a reason. If you are looking for the best protection, whether 2T or 4T, then TCWx oil is not your answer. Again, TCWx is a product of EPA emission mandates and not because it can replace TC oil.
Lets get on the same page people...
This section of the forum is about fuel additives, (Think 4 cycle).
If you add something that could possibly poison your cat then so be it.
I for one will stick with TCW3 for a fuel add for my 4 cycle car, that does NOT poison my cat.
Okie Dokie?
Jim
This section of the forum is about fuel additives, (Think 4 cycle).
If you add something that could possibly poison your cat then so be it.
I for one will stick with TCW3 for a fuel add for my 4 cycle car, that does NOT poison my cat.
Okie Dokie?
Jim
how would tcw-3 work on a radio control nitro engine. the rc guys say nothing will lube the nitro engine but castor oil. the nitro engine makes a ton or heat in side the engine, but you dont see the high heat on the out side.
Originally Posted By: morris
how would tcw-3 work on a radio control nitro engine. the rc guys say nothing will lube the nitro engine but castor oil. the nitro engine makes a ton or heat in side the engine, but you dont see the high heat on the out side.
Castor bean oil or a synthetic equivalent is the only thing that works on those small engines. The smaller the engine, the more they need castor bean oil.
http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/goodoil.shtml
how would tcw-3 work on a radio control nitro engine. the rc guys say nothing will lube the nitro engine but castor oil. the nitro engine makes a ton or heat in side the engine, but you dont see the high heat on the out side.
Castor bean oil or a synthetic equivalent is the only thing that works on those small engines. The smaller the engine, the more they need castor bean oil.
http://www.rcmodelreviews.com/goodoil.shtml
Last edited:
I use Redline Two-Stroke Racing oil for my leaf blower.
Reading the label, it does not mention TCW-3, so I would NOT use it in my vehicle.
My suggestion, for the best 2 cycle oil in 2 cycle engines, would be to visit the 2 cycle forum.
For use of a upper cylinder lube (UCL) in a automobile, folks recommend using 2 cylce oil that is TCW3 rated, to give the lubrication properties desired, without additives that are not needed and could be harmful.
I have been using a "manintenance dose" of Redline Complete Fuel System Cleaner, which is supposed to clean and lubricate.
I don't have any personal experience with a TCW3 2 cycle oil in automotive applications, just what I read.
However, I wanted to help reduce confusion between 2 cycle motor use of TCW3 and automotive (4 cycle with catalytic converters) use.....which are 2 completely separate subjects.
Reading the label, it does not mention TCW-3, so I would NOT use it in my vehicle.
My suggestion, for the best 2 cycle oil in 2 cycle engines, would be to visit the 2 cycle forum.
For use of a upper cylinder lube (UCL) in a automobile, folks recommend using 2 cylce oil that is TCW3 rated, to give the lubrication properties desired, without additives that are not needed and could be harmful.
I have been using a "manintenance dose" of Redline Complete Fuel System Cleaner, which is supposed to clean and lubricate.
I don't have any personal experience with a TCW3 2 cycle oil in automotive applications, just what I read.
However, I wanted to help reduce confusion between 2 cycle motor use of TCW3 and automotive (4 cycle with catalytic converters) use.....which are 2 completely separate subjects.
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