Toyota SN 0W20 VOA

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Originally Posted By: wag123
A question for everyone reading this... Given a choice (since SM is still available), would you quickly snap up a case of Toyota 0W-20 SM, or would you buy the new Toyota 0W-20 SN as needed


That's the dilemma I faced yesterday, as I was getting new wipers at the Honda dealer, which has a Toyota dealer right across from it, so I figured I'd get the oil for my next oil change. But I was also considering grabbing a case (or two) of the SM 0w20. In the end, I decided just to grab enough for one oil change. By the time I do another oil change after that, I'm sure the Toyota dealers here will have nothing but the SN stuff. And I have a feeling that the SN formula is going to prove itself to be an improvement over the SM version.
 
SN>SM. Looks like the VI of the Toyota oil is still really high. That is the main benefit.
 
Originally Posted By: wag123
A question for everyone reading this... Given a choice (since SM is still available), would you quickly snap up a case of Toyota 0W-20 SM, or would you buy the new Toyota 0W-20 SN as needed, or would you buy M1 0W-20 SN as needed, or would you buy PP 0W-20 as needed?

The Toyota 0W-20 is in a league of it's own, there isn't anything remotely close in terms of being the lightest oil on the market at typical start-up temp's most of us will encounter.

The only oil on the market with a 200 VI is the Idemitsu made Honda and Subaru 0W-20's (200 VI) but it is noticeably heavier than the Toyota oil. At operating temp's, 90C - 100C it's almost 10% heavier and is 25% heavier on start-up at room temperature based on oil pressure. I haven't compared the oil at colder temp's but due to it's lower VI that percentage difference should increase.

This VOA is of course to see what difference there is between the out going SM oil and the new SN version of the Toyota Brand 0W-20 and the main unique characteristic of the oil, it's ultra high 214 VI has stayed the same in line with the original Nippon Oil 0W-20 version.
 
Originally Posted By: Patman
Originally Posted By: wag123
A question for everyone reading this... Given a choice (since SM is still available), would you quickly snap up a case of Toyota 0W-20 SM, or would you buy the new Toyota 0W-20 SN as needed


That's the dilemma I faced yesterday, as I was getting new wipers at the Honda dealer, which has a Toyota dealer right across from it, so I figured I'd get the oil for my next oil change. But I was also considering grabbing a case (or two) of the SM 0w20. In the end, I decided just to grab enough for one oil change. By the time I do another oil change after that, I'm sure the Toyota dealers here will have nothing but the SN stuff. And I have a feeling that the SN formula is going to prove itself to be an improvement over the SM version.


About two hours ago I received a 12qt case of 0w20 SM Toyota for $61.50 shipped I got from Ebay.
After reading about the change to SN and only 100 ppm of moly,I was sweating it out hoping it wasn't SN.
smile.gif

I have 21 qts but may bid on another case from the same Ebay seller.
 
Originally Posted By: Patman
And I have a feeling that the SN formula is going to prove itself to be an improvement over the SM version.


It's the classic old vs. new dilemma. The SM version is a known and the SN version is an unknown. There is genuine comfort in the known.

SN could be better, given new oil technology and the tough demands of 10,000 mile OCIs. SN could be worse, due to cost-cutting measures.

The catch today is that new technology can sometimes outperform old tech at a lower price. Future UOAs will tell the story.
 
Originally Posted By: Bruce T
Patman said:
The catch today is that new technology can sometimes outperform old tech at a lower price. Future UOAs will tell the story.

Bruce, that's the thing. We don't even have a single UOA on the EOM made SM oil posted. I doubt that will change much now that the SN oil is out.
Click to expand...
 
What is part No. Toyota SN 0W20?
Old oil had:
08880-82652 1 Litre - API SM; ILSCAC GF-4 0W20,
08880-82653 5 Litre - API SM; ILSCAC GF-4 0W20.
 
Yes, Infineum's (co-owned by Exxon-Mobil and Shell) trinuclear moly (organic moly with three Mo atoms and several S atoms in the molecule) is the most potent form of moly out there and a Mo concentration of 50 - 200 ppm would be sufficient for wear protection and fuel-economy improvement if trinuclear moly is used. See this discussion about trinuclear moly. There is also a prsentation by Infineum linked there.

How do you know that they are using trinuclear moly in the SN formulation of Toyota/Eneos 0W-20?

It's surprising that it was certified for GF-5 (or even GF-4) with 900 ppm P, as the limit for GF-4 and GF-5 is 800 ppm. Not that I would complain that it has more ZDDP -- more ZDDP is actually a very good thing for wear protection -- but it's strange.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan

How do you know that they are using trinuclear moly in the SN formulation of Toyota/Eneos 0W-20?

The original formula of the Toyota Brand 0W-20 was made by Nippon Oil (ENEOS) but EOM has taken over NA production for the past year or so. The high 700 ppm of moly in that formulation was sourced from Adeka-Sakura in Japan.
EOM continued with the Adeka-Sakura lube and concentration with their SM version of the oil.
With this new SN GF-5 EOM made oil and the reduction in moly to 124 ppm it is assumed that the trinuclear moly must be what is being used.

Regarding the high P levels, that was explained earlier in this thread but it can be assumed that the 800 ppm max' is the target with a margin for error.
 
Originally Posted By: CMMeadAM
Bottle. None of our local Toyota/Lexus dealers are
using "bulk" synthetic oil.

That is not true, most of the ones here have converted to bulk 0w-20.

0w-20 has been available in the bulk oil program since 2009. Apparently the price per gallon is $12.76 or about $3.19/qt. The price has probably risen slightly since then, but some news feed said that Toyota dropped prices in Oct.

At this price I have a feeling that Toyota is subsidizing the cost to some extent.

pdf of bulletin:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=t...UMJOsUdewNGcvGg
 
Last edited:
Guess you made a trip all the way from CA and checked out
our LOCAL Toyota dealers ! Well, if you did, you would have been disappointed and found that NONE of them are using bulk 0W20. For whatever reason, they are still using the bottles....so...it IS TRUE......as originally stated that
OUR LOCAL Toytoa dealers are NOT using BULK 0W20.
 
Originally Posted By: CMMeadAM
Guess you made a trip all the way from CA and checked out
our LOCAL Toyota dealers ! Well, if you did, you would have been disappointed and found that NONE of them are using bulk 0W20. For whatever reason, they are still using the bottles....so...it IS TRUE......as originally stated that
OUR LOCAL Toytoa dealers are NOT using BULK 0W20.






Not saying you are wrong, just wanted to point out that bulk 0W20 is an option for dealers now.
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: CMMeadAM
Bottle. None of our local Toyota/Lexus dealers are
using "bulk" synthetic oil.

That is not true, most of the ones here have converted to bulk 0w-20.

0w-20 has been available in the bulk oil program since 2009. Apparently the price per gallon is $12.76 or about $3.19/qt. The price has probably risen slightly since then, but some news feed said that Toyota dropped prices in Oct.

At this price I have a feeling that Toyota is subsidizing the cost to some extent.

pdf of bulletin:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=t...UMJOsUdewNGcvGg

Thank you. This is an extremely useful link. You can check the prices for these part numbers at www.toyotapartszone.com. I can get these prices where I live through a Toyota dealer that has Trademotion. Check to see if you have any Toyota dealers in your area that have Trademotion or similar online ordering at discounted prices. A gallon costs about $15.
 
Note that this PDF document is also the proof I was looking for that the Toyota Genuine Motor Oil is made by ExxonMobil! ExxonMobil is specifically referred to on Page 3, and dealers are instructed to send their bulk-oil requests to ExxonMobil. Also, the material numbering system corresponds to Exxon/Mobil numbering system, for example 0W-20 SN/GF-5 being numbered as 98KX51/98KX52, as found on the 1-quart bottle.

Also note that you can't purchase the bulk oil yourself unless you order a 55-gallon drum, as that's the container it ships with. The sold-by-gallon option is provided to the Toyota distributors by ExxonMobil distributors. I can get the 1-quart bottles here in LA for $5.19 per 12 (case) or $5.66 for a single bottle through a nearby Toyota dealer that has the Trademotion online ordering.
 
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