What type of oil does a helicopter engine use?

[Quattro Pete]

I was recently on board a Eurocopter EC130 which uses the Arriel 2B1 engine. I noticed that throughout the flight, the engine oil temp hovered around only 60 degrees Celsius (140F). Knowing nothing about helicopters and their lubrication needs, I was just curious what engine oils they use... anybody want to fill me in?

Thanks!

 

[LoneRanger]

Dunno but like the glass cockpit.

 

[chubbs1]

Helicopter oil. Jeez, helicopters use helicopter oil.

 

[tom slick]

It would use a turbine engine oil. I don't know specifically what the Arriel engine uses but Mobil Jet Oil II would be an example.

http://www.exxonmobil.com/lubes/exxonmobil/emal/files/MobilJetOil_II.pdf

The engine uses ball and roller bearings, not plain bearings like a piston engine so the main function of the oil is cooling.

 

[bepperb]

Originally Posted By: tom slick
It would use a turbine engine oil. I don't know specifically what the Arriel engine uses but Mobil Jet Oil II would be an example.

http://www.exxonmobil.com/lubes/exxonmobil/emal/files/MobilJetOil_II.pdf

The engine uses ball and roller bearings, not plain bearings like a piston engine so the main function of the oil is cooling.


Yes, Fletch taught us that they're all ball bearings these days.

 

[fdcg27]

I can't believe that oil temps run that low on a turbine.
My first thought was that you were looking at gearbox oil temp, but the display does say engine oil.
Since turbines call for fairly exotic ester basestock oils, I can only guess that there must be much higher local temperatures somewhere that the oil sees than what the panel in the cockpit indicates.
Otherwise, you'd just fill it up with Peak from AAP and be on your way.

 

[tom slick]

Originally Posted By: bepperb
Originally Posted By: tom slick
It would use a turbine engine oil. I don't know specifically what the Arriel engine uses but Mobil Jet Oil II would be an example.

http://www.exxonmobil.com/lubes/exxonmobil/emal/files/MobilJetOil_II.pdf

The engine uses ball and roller bearings, not plain bearings like a piston engine so the main function of the oil is cooling.


Yes, Fletch taught us that they're all ball bearings these days.


Now you prepare that Fetzer valve with some 3-in-1 oil and some gauze pads. And I'm gonna need 'bout ten quarts of anti-freeze, preferably Prestone. No, no make that Quaker State.

 

[SEMI_287]

Turbine oil. The CFM56 on our 737's see anywhere from 40s-100C during a typical flight. 96C or about 205F on our last leg from Chicago-Orlando.

 

[Tom NJ]

Here is some info on jet turbine engine oils (scroll down to long post):

Turbine oils

Tom NJ

 

[Cujet]

Our Eurocopter EC-135 has 2 Trouble-meca Arrius 2B1A_1 engines. We use BP-2380 without any issues. These engines are known for "coking" and carbon particulates. 2380 may not be the best choice in this regard. However, the engines have such short lives due to cracking and erosion (about 1000 hours) it matters not.

Mobil jet 254 is a better choice if coking is a problem. (fried oil)

While you noticed the oil temp was quite reasonable, that's simply due to the efficient oil cooling and flow rates. There are sections internal to the engine where the best synthetic oil is literally fried while in contact with exceptionally hot components.

In our engine, oil travels through a tube, shrouded in an aerodynamic strut, located in the exhaust path. It really is "red hot" inside the exhaust duct. That oil lubricates the AFT bearing, also located at the discharge side of the turbine wheel.

 

[dkryan]

" Our Eurocopter EC-135 has 2 Trouble-meca Arrius 2B1A_1 engines......"

 

[Runner]

Cujet is correct that an HTS oil like MJO 254 (or BPTO 2197 as well) might be a better choice. This is supported by service information letters by Turbomeca specific to EMS operations where cycle time can be extremely short (and hence hard on oil with little chance to cool it).

 

[Grecko]

You really do want to use a better oil that is less prone to coking. The reason is that gearboxes in these engines are lubricated with the same oil as is used in the rest of the engine. When you have a coking problem you are creating little bits of carbon that then get circulated through the entire engine and gearbox.

While you are likely tearing the engine down at 1,000 hours, the wear in the gearbox can be significantly reduced and that could save you a lot of bucks at overhaul.

I know it isn't the same engine, but on the Model 250 we went from a mineral oil to a full synthetic and also, at the same time changed to a 3 micron oil filter (to filter out those nasty little carbon rocks from the oil). The gearbox life more than doubled and the wear on the gears and splines went to almost nothing. You are going to replace the bearings at overhaul, but a lot parts in there are replaced "on condition", so the cost of an overhaul can vary significantly.

Since the oil change interval is very long on some turbines, the cost per hour for the best oil that you can buy is pennies per hour.

Cheap insurance and it will end up saving you money in the long run.

 

[Cujet]

You would think that the overhaul costs would be different. But, when Troublemeca Grand Prairie, TX does an overhaul, they change all the parts and charge accordingly. Nothing is re-used. That's what you get for your $600,000.00! A new engine is not that much more...

I'd love to use the better oil. However, the way those engines leak, it gets all over our expensive paint job and stains it. BP-2380 does not stain the paint!

The reality is that the engine life is short enough, coking is not problematic. We are not finding any particulates in the filters, nor are we seeing any unusual numbers in the oil analysis. In other words, no coking problems.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
You would think that the overhaul costs would be different. But, when Troublemeca Grand Prairie, TX does an overhaul, they change all the parts and charge accordingly. Nothing is re-used. That's what you get for your $600,000.00! A new engine is not that much more...

Troublemeca? Is that the nickname for American Eurocopter?

I honestly don't know.

My dad flew A-Stars for PHI between careers in the Army and the police department. He liked them. The A-Stars. Not necessarily PHI.

EDIT: OH! Turbomeca!

 

[Grecko]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
You would think that the overhaul costs would be different. But, when Troublemeca Grand Prairie, TX does an overhaul, they change all the parts and charge accordingly. Nothing is re-used. That's what you get for your $600,000.00! A new engine is not that much more...

I'd love to use the better oil. However, the way those engines leak, it gets all over our expensive paint job and stains it. BP-2380 does not stain the paint!


Ouch!!! While the EC aircraft are great, sounds like they need a real engine. There's no reason for an overhaul to cost $600k, nor should a turbine leak oil. Those old Troublemecca's have been around a long time. I didn't know they were that bad.

Interesting, the power by the hour cost of small turbines is almost the same as much bigger engines, even though the cost is a lot less to start with. The reason is that you have to go through them a lot sooner and it costs a lot to overhaul them. The Model 250 helo engine on a per hour basis used to cost the same as the 3007 fan engine in the EMB 145 on an hourly basis. The reason was that even though the big fan engine cost 5x as much, it ran a lot more than 5x as long.

Curious, how much do you plan per engine on for reserve on an hourly basis?