PP (SN) 5W-30, 5353mi, 3.6DI Saturn Outlook

[BigTallV]

My first run of PP (SN formulation) this past summer, compares on par with my run of Edge over the summer last year. Most notably the fuel was finally within tolerance. I'm impressed with PP (SN). I've put another fill of this oil and will run it over the winter.

Your thoughts and comments are always appreciated.

Regards,
/BTV

JPEG version of lab report here:
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Sample Date Aug 31/11 Mar 28/11 Sep 02/10 May 17/10 Mar 03/10 Dec 04/09 Aug 31/09

Lab Name FLUID LIFE FLUID LIFE FLUID LIFE FLUID LIFE FLUID LIFE n/a n/a

Oil PP (SN) 5W-30 EDGE 5W-30 EDGE 5W-30 M1 5W-30 M1 5W-30 M1 5W-30 Saturn Bulk 5W-30

Filter ACD PF48 ACD PF48 ACD PF48 ACD PF48 ACD PF48 ACD PF48 ACD PF48

Total Miles 34,500 miles 29,146 miles 22,500 miles 16,412 miles 12,400 miles 8404 miles 3879 miles

Miles on oil 5353 miles 5516 miles 6088 miles 4012 miles 3996 miles 4525 miles 3879 miles

OLM 56% 42% 56% 71% 57% n/a n/a

Make up oil 0 0 0 0 0 0 0



Aluminum....... 6 9 7 4 8

Chrome......... 2 2 2 2 3

Iron........... 68 70 60 63 101

Copper......... 9 8 12 9 14

Lead........... 2 0 0 1 1

Tin............ 1 0 0 0 0

Molybdenum..... 67 103 107 118 103

Nickel......... 0 0 1 0 0

Manganese...... n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a

Silver......... 0 0 0 0 0

Titanium....... 0 0 0 0 0

Potassium...... 0 0 0 1 3

Boron.......... 5 24 26 57 51

Silicon........ 14 11 14 8 16

Sodium......... 0 0 3 5 16

Calcium........ 2569 2922 2903 2502 2330

Magnesium...... 11 13 11 12 14

Phosphorus..... 647 676 680 706 693

Zinc........... 790 923 849 850 832

Barium......... 0 0 0 0 0

Vanadium....... 0 0 0 0 0

Antimony....... 0 0 0 0 0

Lithium........ 2 1 1 1 1

Berylium....... 0 0 0 0 0



Flashpoint F... n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a

Fuel %.........
Antifreeze..... Neg Neg Neg Neg Neg

Water.......... Neg Neg Neg Neg Neg

Insoluables.... n/a n/a n/a n/a n/a

cSt Visc@40C... 57.4 (47.6) 56.9 52.4 (50.1)

cSt Visc@100C.. 9.41 (8.68) 9.97 9.40 (8.91)

TBN............ 5.2 5.70 6.56 7.04 5.85

TAN............ --- --- 5.68 --- ---


Regards,
/MV

 

[chubbs1]

They all look like they worked well considering your engine has that pattern of wear. I know Edge was thin for a 30grade but the middle sample is a 20grade, I know you had more fuel in that sample but that seems very thin compared to the other Edge sample. Now you have to try The Edge w/ Titanium!

Thanks!!

 

[cp3]

Well it's consistent with the iron anyway. Does the up down of the Silicon coincide with air filter changes or just noise? Single digits would be nice but I don't think it's that bad. Very nice to see the fuel down, any ideas as to why?

Have you thought about trying something that starts a little thicker? Just currious if it might bring the Fe down some more although it's still young for some GMs.

 

[BigTallV]

Originally Posted By: cp3
Well it's consistent with the iron anyway. Does the up down of the Silicon coincide with air filter changes or just noise? Single digits would be nice but I don't think it's that bad. Very nice to see the fuel down, any ideas as to why?

Have you thought about trying something that starts a little thicker? Just currious if it might bring the Fe down some more although it's still young for some GMs.


Air filter was changed at 37,800KM (23,600 Miles) which is about roughly 11 months ago. Would like to see the silicon down as well, I'll have to inspect the air box for signs. As for the fuel dropping off, I think it may be because I remembered to do a quick run on the highway before doing the drain. On all prior occasions there just wasn't time to do so. Might be the mix of driving too, favourable weather helps it get up to temp quicker as well. Not really sure, just glad the fuel was down.

Would like to see the Fe trend down, but these DI's seem to throw some iron for whatever reason. Once I go through my stash of PP and Edge, I'll likely try PC if I can get my hands on some.

Trying some FS or Valvoline Premium Conventional on shorter runs may prove out too. I see WM has the Valvoline on for $9.88 for 5L jug, that's even better than the 45% off at Canadian Tire for 5L of Formula1 (nee FS).

 

[Finklejag]

Have you taken it in to have the OLM recalibrated?

 

[BigTallV]

Originally Posted By: Finklejag
Have you taken it in to have the OLM recalibrated?


It has only just been done now. The timing chain/OLM recall was *NOT* done previously, so for any of the UOA's to date it is the factory OLM programming.

I've always been of the opinion that between 50 and 60% OLM is the sweet spot to get the oil changed for these DI's. We shall see what the OLM dials in when I do the next drain.

 

[cp3]

Well, I don't think either the Fe or Si are a big problem but I'd be thinking the same as you anyway. The SN PC has a bit higher HTHS but not by very much. Probably getting into HDEOs or GC to get a lot thicker. It will be interesting to see how long the OLM goes with the reprogramming.

I saw that VWB deal but I have this mental block against using it because that's what I was running in the G6 when it started using oil a couple summers ago. Silly I know but I like the PC stuff anyway....for now. All of the nice UOAs on conventional, including yours on the Pursuit have got me thinking again....lol

 

[BigTallV]

Originally Posted By: cp3
It will be interesting to see how long the OLM goes with the reprogramming.

I saw that VWB deal but I have this mental block against using it because that's what I was running in the G6 when it started using oil a couple summers ago. Silly I know but I like the PC stuff anyway....for now. All of the nice UOAs on conventional, including yours on the Pursuit have got me thinking again....lol


Another lambda owner has some decent results with VWB in his Traverse, but he's out in California. So in summer time in the Toronto area this may be 'okay' for my 3.6DI, but I often wonder about winter. For sure, I think thicker or HDEO has its merits here.

I'm trying to stick to oils on the 'GM approved' list, and unfortunately the venerable GC isn't. This despite it likely doing a better job in this application.

I'm watching the OLM like a hawk now that the recal has been done.

 

[Merkava_4]

It looks like you're getting alot of fuel in the oil; that fuel could be
washing down the cylinders and causing the high iron numbers.

 

[BigTallV]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
It looks like you're getting alot of fuel in the oil; that fuel could be
washing down the cylinders and causing the high iron numbers.


Unfortunately the DI design is prone to this, at least from what UOA's I've seen. I do plenty of short trips with this 3.6DI, so fuel present in the UOA's will definitely occur for me unless I do a sample after a long highway run.

 

[Brons2]

5/17/10 sample had best results.

Maybe try conventional 10w30? Is that allowed in the owner's manual?

I would be pretty neurotic about the iron if it was my vehicle.

 

[BigTallV]

Originally Posted By: Brons2
5/17/10 sample had best results.

Maybe try conventional 10w30? Is that allowed in the owner's manual?

I would be pretty neurotic about the iron if it was my vehicle.


Manual calls for 5W-30 and they allow for 0W-30 in extreme cold. In my area, in the winter, we do get our fair dose of cold. I wouldn't run a 10W-30 in winter, but in summer, one *might* get away with it. I've obtained good results with FS in my Pursuit. The thought has crossed my mind, though I'd run it for fewer miles in the DI.

M1 faired well but was in there (a) for less time, and (b) for fewer miles, roughly 1300 less. The 40C viscosity was dropping a fair bit, though it was still within tolerance. I certainly could dismiss the fuel number obtained and chalk that up to my lack of preparedness for not having done a good highway run before sampling.

The iron, for sure - agreed. I would prefer to see lower Fe.

 

[odie]

Strong showing for the P.P..