Nexen snow tires at Walmart.

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Well I was in Wal mart today and they have their snow tires out.
I don't need new ones but I looked them over as I went by, they looked decent, and noticed on the sticker "Made in China".
Made mention of it to a guy looking at tires and he said "So what, as long as their good tires".
Obviously he didn't know or care about jobs here in North America.
BF Goodrich shut down a tire plant not far from us about 5 years ago.
I put snows on our car last year made in the USA by BFG and they are excellent.
I'm Canadian and if I see Canadian made products, I'm real happy, but I'm also happy if they're American too. As long as they are North American, that's good.
So if you want to try to keep some jobs over here, here's a place to start.
 
How do you feel about Ford sourcing the 6 speed MT82 Getrag manual transmission in their new Mustang from China? The owners of the new Mustangs who aren't able to shift gears don't feel to wonderful about it either. There is now a NHTSA investigation into the transmission as a safety issue.

Toys from China. Maybe. Automobile parts from China. No thanks.
 
I'm with the guy you ran into. You can't win 'em all. I have no idea where my Altimax Arctic's are made but I feel safe on them and that is what matters most.
 
Stop bashing non American products, I have bought many automotive parts from China, Japan and Korea and to this day I have not had any of them fail on me due to poor manufacturing....

The reason jobs are outsourcing to other nations is capitalism at its finest, over in China it could cost Nike as low as 4 dollars to make a pair of air force ones, because in China you can pay someone like [censored] and still get a good product, then they ship them back to the states for maybe another dollar per pair and sell them for about 60 dollars to foot locker who in turn sells them for 90 dollars.

When the cost of making a pair of shoes is less they can profit more, and make you pay less for a pair of shoes, which is why they outsource jobs.

Everyone needs to stop the whole if its made in China it's a bad product saying, although there are a lot of bad products that come from China there are plenty of good ones too, which does include automotive parts.

You should have no reason to assume that Chinese products have any lower of a build quality over an American product
 
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Nexen is a Korean tire company. Some lower price tires are made in China because of lower cost there. Japan was a low cost manufacture country in the mid 60's to mid 80's, Korea was the low cost country in the 80's and 90's, now the low cost countries are China, Vietnam, Indonesia ...
 
I believe my Blizzak's are Japan. My summer Hankooks are Korean.
Unfortunately while I would prefer something made here, that is becoming increasingly difficult, unfortunately.
If I limited myself to NA, I would have a choice of one snow tire on TR. The brand new GY Ultra Grip Ice WRT which has no testing at this point.
 
Originally Posted By: old farmer
Well I was in Wal mart today and they have their snow tires out.
I don't need new ones but I looked them over as I went by, they looked decent, and noticed on the sticker "Made in China".
Made mention of it to a guy looking at tires and he said "So what, as long as their good tires".
Obviously he didn't know or care about jobs here in North America.
BF Goodrich shut down a tire plant not far from us about 5 years ago.
I put snows on our car last year made in the USA by BFG and they are excellent.
I'm Canadian and if I see Canadian made products, I'm real happy, but I'm also happy if they're American too. As long as they are North American, that's good.
So if you want to try to keep some jobs over here, here's a place to start.



Have you ever seen Canadian or US made items at your local WalMart?
 
I can't explain everyone else's aversion to Chinese products, but I can explain mine, which I suspect a number of people are likely to share.

First, there was a time when Japanese products were looked down upon (long before I was a consumer, in fact, it started before I was born), but they, as a nation, quickly learned that people didn't want to buy junk. By the mid-80's, they were recognized as making top-notch products that were highly sought.

Korea was much the same story, only the time lines started later.

China could be similar, but I think things may be a little different here, but before I go into the why or how, I want to say what it is that has put me off of their products. Children's toys laced with lead, milk and pet food laced with melamine, virtually no environmental controls on pollution, lack of regard by their government for human lives, exploitation of their workforce, many of whom are children, poor quality control on critical safety products, which allow products that can fail catastrophically make it into the supply stream in large numbers, cutting corners in the manufacturing process leading to an inferior product... I can go on. Sure, there are many other countries that will have these same or similar issues, but there is no other country who's products are in the markets worldwide in as large a volume.

With China, the scenario seems to be different than it is with Japan and Korea. The latter two are capitalist countries, and they learned what the markets wanted in order to survive. China is a communist country, with a government that has a less than stellar record. Companies from capitalist countries want to do business with China, for several reasons. Firstly, they are the world's largest market, so a great place to sell product. But they are also a closed market, and the government forces companies to set up joint venture plants there in order to be able to sell their products in China, and share their technology. Because of this investment and/or the very cheap labour, and low production costs due to lack of environmental regulations, many companies are finding it very cheap to produce what appears to be the same product they've made elsewhere, for far less. Corporate greed, and pressure from consumers worldwide for lower prices (both are at play) mean more production is shifting to the red nation. Maybe costs are 50% lower there, but consumers may see a 10% reduction in price - the consumer is satisfied getting a lower priced product, and corporate greed satisfied as they pocket the rest.

So what about quality driving consumers away? For many products, the lower quality is not a big issue (like clothing). Economies in many countries right now are not fairing too well, and consumers are trying to pinch every penny, so often, low cost wins. Quality shortcomings are often not revealed until large quantities of that product have been sold, and an investigation/recall later ensues. And with many product categories, there is no alternative but made in China any more.

Until the government changes there, there will not be the forces to drive environmental compliance to what most of the western world considers acceptable, nor will the labour force be treated fairly. Enforcement of safety regulations won't happen until then, and therefore dangerous products will continue to be produced on a large scale there.

Quality control (as well as environmental and workforce issues) are now entirely in the hands of the company that is sourcing goods there. If that manufacturer sets up their own factory, they can influence this hugely, and can, if they so desire, build a product that is just as good as one built anywhere else. But that is just it - if they so desire. Not all of them do, as that raises production costs. If the factory is an outsourced one, then most things go out the window. Look at Mattel. And how are you, as a consumer going to be able to tell how your Chinese sourced product was made when you see it on the shelf at Walmart?

This could happen with factories in other countries with similar circumstances.

I am sure there are some flaws in my argument, and I'm sure there are those who will argue the flaws, but overall, I stand by my argument.
 
Weebl,

I think that was good summary of the situation, but allow me to nit-pick one item:

Originally Posted By: weebl
..... Maybe costs are 50% lower there, but consumers may see a 10% reduction in price - the consumer is satisfied getting a lower priced product, and corporate greed satisfied as they pocket the rest.......


Sometime back I was on an airplane seated next to a shoe wholesaler. We discussed business costs and the way they work and he clued me into a general formula.

He said that "Car Door" cost (What it costs a company to take a raw material and convert it into a finished product) can be divided into thirds: 1/3 raw material, 1/3 labor, and 1/3 burden (the operating costs of the factory) Please note, the term "Car Door" derives from the idea that the product goes immediately from the factory floor into a rail car, without a stop in the warehouse - and that cost does not include any costs associated with warehousing, shipping, research and development, sales and marketing, and company management. He also pointed out that the cost a consumer pays is about twice the car door cost - and that this equation is surprisingly similar for a wide variety of products - including shoes.

I knew this was true for tires, and a few weeks later it was confirmed by the Detroit Free Press about cars.

So if I take this equation and reduce the labor costs by 50%, what the consumer would see as a reduction in price is ..... wait for it...... ~8½%.

While I am not a big fan of big business, and I am not a big fan of shifting production away from local sources, I think the reality is that if it isn't done, the business will be priced out of the market - and while I see a lot of corporate greed involved in such decisions, I also think it is important that we work off of good information.

And to add one addition: Japan, Korea, China - and I predict India will be the next source of cheap labor, followed by parts of Africa.

I don't see any of this as a big conspiracy. This was done starting in about the 1960's with shifts from factories in the northern US to those in the South - a trend that continues today.
 
Capri, thank you for the clarification on the costs. I picked a number out of the air for an example, but having real figures is always better.

I can see India being the next major manufacturing country as well, and I think we are already starting to see the start of it. I think the environment there is a little different, and how that translates into the products, quality and pricing we see will be interesting.

I don't think there is any sort of conspiracy either. If manufacturers find other countries besides China are more favourable for them, then production will shift there.

Interesting thing about African companies, though. I saw this last night when I was helping to get my son's school stuff ready. A family we're friends with are from South Africa, and introduced to our circle of friends a kids clothing line from South Africa - good quality stuff and seems to be quite nice. We bought some shoes for my son, and when I looked at the label of this South African brand, it said "Made in China." I had a bit of a chuckle. And when it comes to clothing or shoes, I find I am not as concerned over country of origin as I am when it comes to things like automotive parts or food.
 
Originally Posted By: jjjxlr8
Have you ever seen Canadian or US made items at your local WalMart?

Oil, Oil Filter, ATF, Antifreeze and many other auto parts. I almost never buy anything else at Walmart so I don't know about other items.
 
Originally Posted By: weebl

Until the government changes there, there will not be the forces to drive environmental compliance to what most of the western world considers acceptable, nor will the labour force be treated fairly. Enforcement of safety regulations won't happen until then, and therefore dangerous products will continue to be produced on a large scale there.


I hope you know that the biggest investor in green technologies R&D in the world is the Chinese government. more to read
 
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
I hope you know that the biggest investor in green technologies R&D in the world is the Chinese government.


...and I hope you know that one of the biggest driving forces behind the Chinese government's push for 'green' technology is that there's big money to be made in selling photovoltaic cells and permanent magnets for windmill generators to western 'consumers', and that the plants where these and other items are produced are not subject to what we would consider minimal environmental controls in the U.S. or Europe.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/...rous-scale.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/30/business/global/30rare.html
 
Originally Posted By: leeharvey418
...and I hope you know that one of the biggest driving forces behind the Chinese government's push for 'green' technology is that there's big money to be made in selling photovoltaic cells and permanent magnets for windmill generators to western 'consumers', and that the plants where these and other items are produced are not subject to what we would consider minimal environmental controls in the U.S. or Europe.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/...rous-scale.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/30/business/global/30rare.html


Certainly makes you sick to your stomach.

Which opens up a whole different can of worms when it comes to what is being touted as "green" these days, when the true environmental effects are hidden out of sight.
 
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