The switch from Honda ATF Z1 to DW-1.... issues.

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Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: FZ1
Originally Posted By: pbm
I know you didn't ask but if it were mine I would change to Redline D4 or even Maxlife or Castrol Import MV, disconnect the battery for awhile (to clear the memory) and see what happens. If I didn't use the Redline D4 I'd add a bottle of Lubegard Red.
I don't believe Honda's ATFs are anything special...
Thanks,but most of us with,Hondas feel we are better served with the prescribed Honda ATF.



I disagree...I owned a Honda Accord with the problematic BAXA A/T and the concensus of most on the Accord forum was that Redline D4, Amsoil and even Maxlife were superior.


I agree 100%...
 
I don't. It's not about the "best fluid" in a vacuum;It's about what fluid is spec'd for the purpose.
 
I generally would agree that other fluids are superior to Z-1. However, I don't agree that they're superior to DW-1, at least not based on what I've read about the new fluid and its performance properties.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I generally would agree that other fluids are superior to Z-1. However, I don't agree that they're superior to DW-1, at least not based on what I've read about the new fluid and its performance properties.


But honda made the switch to DW-1 purely for fuel economy purposes.. I don't think it was ever intended to make honda transmissions last longer. Most who say their car shifts much better are likely experiencing this due to new tranny fluid... unless they went from fresh Z1 to fresh DW-1 and noticed a difference. I should say there have been zero fuel economy improvement with the switch to DW-1 in my TSX.

Kinda like the switch from 5W30 to 5W20.. I still use 5W30 as it protects my motor better than the thinner more fuel efficient 5W20 Honda now recommends.

I think for ATF I will have to switch to Redline D4 since any possible hope to get my hands on Z1 is drying up.. and even if I can get enough now... there is no guarantee I can get it in the future.
 
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Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
I generally would agree that other fluids are superior to Z-1. However, I don't agree that they're superior to DW-1, at least not based on what I've read about the new fluid and its performance properties.


can you elaborate more on "performance property" part about DW1? or where can i find these information? thanks
 
DW-1 is a new synthetic fluid which is reported to stand up to heat better (which is an issue in older Honda automatic transmissions) and maintain viscosity in colder temperatures better than Z-1.

Unless one works for Honda, I'm not sure one can say with full certainty exactly "why" Honda developed this new fluid. Fuel economy may be one reason. I'm sure it's not the only one. I haven't noticed a difference in economy either with the new fluid in my Acura. For what it's worth, this is the back of the bottle. Fuel economy is one of the "performance benefits" listed, but it's not the only one.

30515_51303.jpg


I imagine that ATF is like motor oil in that viscosity alone doesn't indicate how well a lubricant "protects". A variety of factors influence the performance of a lubricant.
 
thanks for the info. after some search on internet, I came across a post on Hondasuv forum; someone mentioned the Canadian DW-1 and US DW1 are different.
i also noticed, all the DW1 I see at Honda/Acura Canadian dealers says it's "full synthetic" on the label, no so on the DW-1 south of border, all image posted on internet seller or dealer page only says "advanced formula"... very strange.
 
Label for DW-1 number 08200 9008 barcode 786102004305 says "Contains petroleum oil". Appears not full synthetic. Why not full syn, Honda. Why?
 
ya, I found it's strange. i remember seeing DW1 at least 5 different dealers in the Toronto area and all has label "full synthetic". VOA on Honda 0W20 posted by members also shown difference between north and south. funny that many place in US has harsh climate then southern Ontario.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
DW-1 is a new synthetic fluid which is reported to stand up to heat better (which is an issue in older Honda automatic transmissions) and maintain viscosity in colder temperatures better than Z-1.

Unless one works for Honda, I'm not sure one can say with full certainty exactly "why" Honda developed this new fluid. Fuel economy may be one reason. I'm sure it's not the only one. I haven't noticed a difference in economy either with the new fluid in my Acura. For what it's worth, this is the back of the bottle. Fuel economy is one of the "performance benefits" listed, but it's not the only one.

30515_51303.jpg


I imagine that ATF is like motor oil in that viscosity alone doesn't indicate how well a lubricant "protects". A variety of factors influence the performance of a lubricant.


The interesting thing is that the back of the Z1 bottle says pretty much the same thing... other than the fuel economy bit. DW-1 Also says formulated specifically for newer vehicles ie 2011+ that were designed around it.

DSC04355.JPG
 
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Originally Posted By: thrace
Label for DW-1 number 08200 9008 barcode 786102004305 says "Contains petroleum oil". Appears not full synthetic. Why not full syn, Honda. Why?


This likely goes back to the argument over what does "full synthetic" mean. "Synthetic" Maxlife ATF contains between 80 and 90% petroleum oil, according to its MSDS. Pennzoil advertises its "Full Synthetic" Ultra, but we know it's Group III.

Honda is stating the obvious here. Their bottle of synthetic ATF contains petroleum.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Honda is stating the obvious here. Their bottle of synthetic ATF contains petroleum.


That was how I read it as well. They're not disclosing what group basestock it's made from.
 
Hi 2K5TSX, this may be a little off topic, the image of DW-1 in your post, did you purchase the DW1 from US source? I only saw 1L bottle in dealers.
as for argument of full syn or not, given the usual practice of how Canadian government usually follow US policy, I start to doubt that is why CDN and US DW1 label differently. I do not think using group 3 is the reason the US version loss synthetic statement in label. perhaps CDN version of DW1 is actually thinner,or US version is indeed not synthetic based? I wonder if this is the reason 2K5TSX report harsh shifting because of DW1 being too thin?
i have a few in the basement from CDN Honda dealer, the bottle and label are very different than what 2K5TSX posted pic. I will posted it with image shortly.
 
Just fyi. My 02 Accord V6 shifts more smoothly with the Dw-1. Dunno,if that's good,or bad,but that's what it is,in my car.
 
What's the best procedure in doing this on a 2008 CRV? Shift through the gears, drain, fill to the low mark, shift through the gears again while the engine is still running then add as necessary or is it better to shut the engine off then add.?
 
Originally Posted By: gogozy
Hi 2K5TSX, this may be a little off topic, the image of DW-1 in your post, did you purchase the DW1 from US source? I only saw 1L bottle in dealers.
as for argument of full syn or not, given the usual practice of how Canadian government usually follow US policy, I start to doubt that is why CDN and US DW1 label differently. I do not think using group 3 is the reason the US version loss synthetic statement in label. perhaps CDN version of DW1 is actually thinner,or US version is indeed not synthetic based? I wonder if this is the reason 2K5TSX report harsh shifting because of DW1 being too thin?
i have a few in the basement from CDN Honda dealer, the bottle and label are very different than what 2K5TSX posted pic. I will posted it with image shortly.


Those pictures are from the web and are american bottles. The DW-1 fluid in my TSX is from Honda Canada and they use the black bottle you posted pictures of. Acura Canada uses a grey bottle.. I think it might even be the same as what the US uses.

http://rdx.acurazine.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=8447&pictureid=42141

http://rdx.acurazine.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=8447&pictureid=42142
 
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Originally Posted By: ARB1977
What's the best procedure in doing this on a 2008 CRV? Shift through the gears, drain, fill to the low mark, shift through the gears again while the engine is still running then add as necessary or is it better to shut the engine off then add.?


Drain the transmission and refill the quantity that you drained. On my MDX, that was 3 quarts. I haven't done it yet on my CR-V, but I believe it is the same. Then shift through all the gears, ride around the block, and do it again. Then do the same procedure again, for a total of three drain/fills. This is how the Honda service manual says to do it.

That's vaguely how I did it in the MDX, though I only did one drain/fill at a time. I drove it for 500 miles then did another one last weekend. I'll probably do another one in another 4,500 miles at the next oil change. I plan to do one drain/fill at each oil change on the CR-V also, until I do it a few times, then I'll keep on a drain/fill schedule of every 15k miles from then out. That's replacing approximately 1/3rd of the fluid every 15k miles, which I think is reasonable.

On the CR-V, you fill the transmission through the dipstick tube, so be sure to get a funnel with a thin and long neck to reach down there.
 
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