Oil recommendation for a 1957 Triumph TR3

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The_Eric

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We have a '57 Triumph TR3 in the shop right now for some odds and ends to make it road worthy. It had a ruptured diaphragm in the fuel pump, so I wanted to change the oil to make sure there was no problems with fuel dilution. Naturally I want what's best for the car and I want to be able to give the customer sound info on what type and grade of oil should be dumped in.

It's a flat tappet cam, so I'm thinking an HDEO would do nicely unless there's a better recommendation...
 
IIRC they run a high pressure oil system, so the HDEO would be a good choice. Some of the thinner, low viscosity synthetics might spray out like hair spray. Thousand oil leaks was historical in those cars, fun though.
 
M1 0W-40 is an option if the engine is fresh with good oil pressure.
If not then a HDEO like Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 would be a heavier option.
If the engine is really worn then a 20W-50 dino may be necessary.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

M1 0W-40 is an option if the engine is fresh with good oil pressure.
If not then a HDEO like Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 would be a heavier option.
If the engine is really worn then a 20W-50 dino may be necessary.


So you're thinking 40 grades mostly? Bearing clearances appear to be okay - around 50psi at cold idle. It hasn't been run enough to get good and warm though. The cylinder head was re-done (not by us), but the block was left alone. I noticed the engine smokes a fair amount when it's revved hard. It may come out of that eventually.

I wonder if an of the shelf PCMO 10w-40 would have sufficient zinc and phosphorous to protect the cam and lifters?
 
I just looked at Valvoline's web site (boss likes it) and they're showing Max Life 10w-40 as having 830 zinc and 760 phos...
 
Cold oil pressure tells one very little.
What was the recommended oil of the day?
Do you know what the recommended oil pressure spec's are (hot)
on idle and at elivated rev's?

The Valvoline Phos levels are lower than I'd like; clearly M1 0W-40 is a superior oil and readily available.
It's Phos level is 900 ppm, and while it is a light 40wt, due to it's modern high 185 VI is much lighter on start-up than a typical 10W-30 like Shell Rotella T5 10W-30.

The Triumph has an old engine but it doesn't mean you can't take advantage of the lastest in lubrication technology.
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Cold oil pressure tells one very little.
What was the recommended oil of the day?
Do you know what the recommended oil pressure spec's are (hot)
on idle and at elivated rev's?

The Valvoline Phos levels are lower than I'd like; clearly M1 0W-40 is a superior oil and readily available.
It's Phos level is 900 ppm, and while it is a light 40wt, due to it's modern high 185 VI is much lighter on start-up than a typical 10W-30 like Shell Rotella T5 10W-30.

The Triumph has an old engine but it doesn't mean you can't take advantage of the lastest in lubrication technology.


While I realize that cold pressure tells us very little, I just posted it to relate what I do know about it - that's why I said that it "seems" okay... I haven't been able to really run the car much due to the fuel pump diaphragm and the resulting drive-ability issues.


As for what was recommended, I have no clue. That's primarily why I'm asking actually. I was hoping someone would know, to help me decide.


While I realize that M1 0w-40 is likely one of the better choices, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that my boss wont spring for it. On top of that, the condition of the engine is unknown. I don't want to pour an expensive lube in there that will leak out or get burned up quickly. We are not re-building the engine, merely getting it road worthy. I'm sorry, I should have mentioned that earlier. If I can stay with a conventional or a blend, that would probably be ideal for this situation. So it seems like we're back to the HDEO?
 
This 5w-40 euro formula will work. Good amount of zddp. For that matter any euro formula would be a better choice than a cj-4 diesel. I would not run any SN rated oil in a old flat tapet car. Dan
pdf link
 
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Don't rule out M1 0W-40 just yet.
I just picked up two cases of the stuff last week for $3.40/qt at AZ; admittedly that'a a rare deal, but $5/qt is not uncommon.

Problem with HDEO is that their isn't anything that isn't really heavy available in the States.

Have you tried containing a Triumph Club for info'. That may be your best bet.
 
Originally Posted By: DR Racing
This 5w-40 euro formula will work. Good amount of zddp. For that matter any euro formula would be a better choice than a cj-4 diesel. Dan
pdf link


LOL!!!!

Oh no, Havoline... There's not a snowball's chance that my boss will EVER allow me to pour Havoline in... In fact, I'd have a MUCH greater chance of convincing him to let me pour in a mixture of urine and sand. Didn't you know that Havoline blows up engines, is chemically unstable and causes world unrest? Yes, my boss is VERY close minded...


The PDS does show some promising zinc and phosphorus numbers though. I'll keep that in mind for future (personal) use.
 
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I would use the diesel engine oil. The Rotella T-6 has 1200 ppm of both zinc and phosporus with plenty of calcium to keep it clean.
 
I'd start with an HDEO 15W-40 like Shell Rotella or Chevron Delo and adjust as needed. Don't see why you'd want or need a synthetic.
 
Originally Posted By: JLR
I would use the diesel engine oil. The Rotella T-6 has 1200 ppm of both zinc and phosporus with plenty of calcium to keep it clean.


Calcium will reduce the effectiveness of the zddp and you would even need more zddp to compensate. Here is a very good article that explains it all. Dan

link
 
Originally Posted By: DR Racing
Calcium will reduce the effectiveness of the zddp and you would even need more zddp to compensate. Here is a very good article that explains it all.


Hmmm, another link to a site that condemns HDEOs while trying to sell ridiculously expensive boutique oils and racing oils as an alternative. That's not an article explaining anything. It's an article that cherry picks facts to get sales. One of the gems in the article:

"Many Porsche repair shops have acknowledged that these newest SM and CJ-4 motor oils are not sufficient for protecting any Porsche engine, including newer water-cooled ones."

You think? Considering that for a number of years, Porsche hasn't specified lubricants meeting SM or CJ-4 and instead uses its own specifications, this doesn't surprise me in the least.
 
Originally Posted By: DR Racing
Originally Posted By: JLR
I would use the diesel engine oil. The Rotella T-6 has 1200 ppm of both zinc and phosporus with plenty of calcium to keep it clean.


Calcium will reduce the effectiveness of the zddp and you would even need more zddp to compensate. Here is a very good article that explains it all. Dan

link


M1 uses more calcium than anyone else. Their oils work just fine.
 
Well thanks for your input! I'm leaning towards a 40 grade HDEO mainly due to it's "bang for the buck" factor. It has plenty of cam/lifter friendly additives at a low cost. When the customer comes to pick it up, I'll give him the rundown of other good options - M1 0w-40, High Mileage and other low cost HDEOs and let him decide how he wants to spend his money.
 
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