RLI Biosyn 5W-40HD in 3.0L Touareg 8500 mile OCI

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8,500 mile OCI on the RLI. All fuel was bio-blend either commercial B2-B5 in PA and NJ or splash blended by me to B1. FPPlus additive used at each refuel dosed at 1oz/5gallons.

I sampled this as a raw data report without comment by Dyson. My engine is still wearing in. I don't know how much wear figures are linear from the 5K sample to the 8.5K sample, but if they are iron seems to be wearing at same rate and aluminum trending slightly down. Copper is an additive in the oil as shown in the green VOA reference line in the 5K image at the bottom of this post. I'm very pleased soot is zero as that was a goal of using this oil. I don't know where the potassium is coming from. I have no apparent cooling loss. The factory fill contained potassium and perhaps the Bio-syn is cleaning that up. Something to watch.

I refilled with the same oil and will test again at 5K.

Code:


Iron 66

Copper 106

Tin 0

Lead 2

Chrom 2

Nickel 0

Alum 22

Titan 0

Silver 0

Calciu 3063

Magne 17

Zinc 1679

Phos 1256

Bariu 0

Moly 0

Antim 285

Silico 13

Sodiu 8

Boron 5

Potas 13

Vanad 0

V40C 83.4

V100C 14.2

Flash 410

Oxid 12

Nit 8

KF 841

TBN 7.1

Fuel .172

Soot 0

Glycol 0

vndx 177

Sulfate by products 114. Too dark for TAN.



unit870WPendletonSavannahGA_2011Touareg30TDI_11081363.jpg



Same oil fill tested at 5K posted again for reference.


unit870test3WPendletonSavannahGA_2011Touareg30TDI_11062003-1-1.jpg
 
Hmmmm, TBN goes up with increasing mileage on the oil, and oxidation goes way down. This oil is like wine, it gets better with age.

LCD recommends FP-Plus for gas engines, and FP60 for diesel engines. Why did you choose the FP-Plus?
 
Originally Posted By: SubLGT


LCD recommends FP-Plus for gas engines, and FP60 for diesel engines. Why did you choose the FP-Plus?


I buy direct from Odis Beaver, the former owner of LCD (214-929-2704), and his recommendation is FPPlus. It's the same formulation as FP60 in a bio base. Matter of fact, regardless of the gasoline or diesel label on the FPPlus jug, it's the same product inside.

That does contradict the LCD website.
 
Originally Posted By: wensteph
.............I buy direct from Odis Beaver, the former owner of LCD (214-929-2704), and his recommendation is FPPlus.........


Is there a price advantage buying through Odis, or some other advantage? I did not realize the FP-Plus was available from channels other than LCD directly.
 
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: wensteph
.............I buy direct from Odis Beaver, the former owner of LCD (214-929-2704), and his recommendation is FPPlus.........


Is there a price advantage buying through Odis, or some other advantage? I did not realize the FP-Plus was available from channels other than LCD directly.


It's the same price. Makes no real difference to me since Odis is a nice gentleman to talk with.

I did notice LCD had FPPlus Diesel priced lower than gas labeled product so I ordered a gallon from them to see if they really were the same. Got an e-mail saying they discontinued FPPlus Diesel over some large fleets they sell to preferring something lower in sulphur (Plus was approved for ULSD). From LCD's standpoint Plus is for gas and FP 60 is for diesel. That would contradict Odis so that leaves open the question of how plugged in he still is and how on top of things LCD is since they still had diesel Plus for sale on their website. I'm going to try the FP 60, but am thinking the RLI summer additive is easy to buy with less drama.

I have access to B5 or I splash blend to B1 so lubricity isn't an issue so I'm really looking for cleaning ability and helping with soot control in an additive.
 
This oil becomes thicker and thicker when cold (see V40C) - at 40C it is already 20% more than OEM and at lower temp it can be even more - this can be another source of extra wear - depanding how short trips you run but it is not good for your turbo.
How is your DPF with full saps oil?
I'd use good engine flush and try e.g. Amsoil AEL EU blend 5W-30 and if you want something extra against soot - add BG DOC and check it next 5k miles.. BG DOC added to e.g. M1 5W-30 ESP makes real difference... ;-)
 
I'm not sure what to think yet about wear numbers. This engine is still wearing in, but I'm within an oil fill or two from being where they should drop considerably.

Silver shows 0 and that's the metal normally associated with turbo bearing wear, so I think I'm OK there.

DPF is fine, but that question will be answered long term. EPA says they should go 150,000 without cleaning or replacement, so my DPF lifespan will be something less than that. Or maybe not as the bio-synthetics in this oil contribute some things normal petro or synthetics don't. Dyson is of the opinion this oil won't shorten the time my DPF needs cleaning. We'll see. I should point out that the DPF on my car is a separate bolt-on item not a combo unit with some other cat so it's an easy matter to remove mine and have it commercially cleaned or I'll do it myself. All we are really talking about is cleaning ash from it and the commercial places use pulsed air or in some cases water. It's just a ceramic honeycomb and not some exotic platinum catalyst.
 
Are you sure that you have turbo bearing made of silver? 0ppm from the beginning... Is it possible?
With that package of the oil I'd expect saps ~1,5% at least so min. twice more than expected - check if it is worth it - looking at the results, maybe wear in still but not impressive IMO.
 
Originally Posted By: wlyszkow
Are you sure that you have turbo bearing made of silver? 0ppm from the beginning... Is it possible?
With that package of the oil I'd expect saps ~1,5% at least so min. twice more than expected - check if it is worth it - looking at the results, maybe wear in still but not impressive IMO.


I don't disagree, I think the next one or two oil changes will decide if this is the oil I stay with.
 
wensteph,

I should soon have my UOA of LM Top Tec 4200.

This will have been my fourth OCI in 20k miles. ( an absolute death sentence at the TDIClub
smile.gif
)

The UOA will be my first run of Liqui Moly after abandoning the Pennzoil Ultra Euro L.

I am done with my 'rinse' phase and should take this 2nd new fill of LM out to 7.5k.
 
Last edited:
HondaMan, I'll make a point of looking for it.

I've got 2,500 miles on this current RLI fill and I'll do a full test at 5,000. I'm certainly looking for some better numbers to start showing up. As some items were trending the wrong way I don't rule out a lab issue on this report; I didn't question Terry much on it since the raw test was one he sent me for customer appreciation so the test didn't cost me anything and the oil was already out of the engine so the whole question became moot. I've gone back to the RLI summer additive on the current fill instead of FPPlus. That and the about of bio in my fuel are the only variables that I can change. I'm not comfortable totally ruling out some formula change in FPPlus since the time Terry consulted for them and Odis ran the company. No real reason to think that's the case other than Odis says Plus is good for gas and diesel and LCD says they stopped making Plus for diesel. Too many recommended additives out there to stay in the middle of that discussion.
 
Originally Posted By: wensteph
HondaMan, I'll make a point of looking for it.


wensteph,

My UOA is posted.

While I know you have a 3.0, take a look at my FE of 16 ppm @ 5k vs your very high Fe at the same distance.

Terry is BIG on wear and has always said that the VW 507 specification is not adequate enough in terms of wear protection, and he is probably in fact correct.
BUT!
RLI is not making a showing here at all, unless this engine is THAT different?
 
Looks better than mine!

I'm not going to disagree with you. I've got a 5K UOA coming up in 2K and I'm looking for some good numbers. I'll have 23K on my engine and at some point we have to declare it's pretty well broken in and the numbers should stabilize. We've not hit the ambitious wear numbers Terry aimed for when I went to the RLI. I need to offset the possibility of needing to clean my DPF sooner with some really outstanding wear numbers to warrant not using a 507 oil and I'm not seeing it.
 
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
Something is wrong. I didn't think it was possible to not have any soot in a diesel.


We'll see if it holds at the next UOA in 2K miles. Zero soot was one of the targeted goals with this oil due to the cleaning effects of the bio-synthetic part of the blend and the choice of fuel additives used. Even with the factory fill and the Fuchs my soot level has always been less than 0.10 and it was down to 0.02 with the Fuchs.
 
wensteph, compare with this UOA on Amsoil 5W-40 AFL (11 000km -> ~6800 miles):
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1025/uoaaudi30tdi2.jpg
This 3.0 TDI Audit A4 is tuned to 300HP and run very fast ~170mph very often. This car is now filled with Amsoil 5W-40 DEO CJ-4 and its driver says that it is even better/smoother on DEO and fuel consumption is lower on DEO (even idle) - very interesting... We'll see UOA.. ;-)
 
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