How bad are summer tires in "cold" but no snow?

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rationull

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I'm debating replacing my dd in the next 6 months or so, and the front-runner for its replacement comes only with summer tires from the factory. I'm trying to figure out if I'd need to work a set of all-seasons into the purchase one way or another to replace the summers. I don't really want to buy another set of rims or dead with re-mounting tires multiple times, so realistically I'd rather either keep the summers or replace them right away (before they get much use) and sell them.

Obviously if I kept the summers I wouldn't be making any trips to any type of snow until I wore them out (and replaced them with all-seasons). I live in a mostly warm climate, but during the winter it can get down into the 20s (F) occasionally. Most of the time when I'd be driving , about 35F is the coldest I'll see but I suppose the occasional dry freeze is a possibility.

In this type of weather, are you OK in summer tires as long as you drive sanely and leave plenty of space ahead of you, or is it actually dangerous?
 
Originally Posted By: rationull
How bad are summer tires in "cold" but no snow?

It depends on which specific ones you're asking about. Some of the extreme/max performance summer tires can be a bit sketchy when it's really cold out (assuming dry pavement), but others may be OK.
 
You wouldn't be the first person to use summer tires at a lower temperature than they're really designed for, but any tire manufacturer or (reputable) retailer will tell you it's a bad idea.

I recall being in the Santa Barbara area a few years back when they were experiencing the worst cold spell they had seen in like 80 years - anybody with summer rubber on their car would have been fine, at most having to wait until 10:00 a.m. to let the ambient temperature warm up to the recommended range for the tires. I bet nobody in the area who had summer tires actually bothered to wait, though...
 
I can tell you that Khumo Ecsta Supra tires are next to useless in below freezing weather. Might as well have big hockey pucks on the wheels.
 
Depends on the car. My [RWD] S2000 would get skittish and the rear wheels would chatter/skip across the pavement when I turned, even at low speed. It was sort of like a "greasy pavement" feel (as if it had just rained and all the oils were on the surface).

On my [4WD] S4, the ESP just pops on randomly but it drives mostly the same.


Ambient temperature isn't really a big deal, it's when the pavement itself gets very cold. Your tires will heat up just fine, but they will not have hot asphalt/concrete to grip. This is why I leave my summer tires on until mid to late October...by then the pavement is consistently cold.
 
My car ships with Goodyear F1's, they are a great tire if the road is warm and dry. Otherwise they stink. They were the same on Vettes I owned.

I had no problems down to around 50 degrees or so after a brief warmup period. On almost any car they get MUCH better after a few miles to warm them.
 
Originally Posted By: rationull
In this type of weather, are you OK in summer tires as long as you drive sanely and leave plenty of space ahead of you, or is it actually dangerous?

This is entirely a matter of opinion. In any given situation, you'll find one person who will call it dangerous, and another who will say "just leave enough space ahead of you and you'll be fine." Technically, both are true. I know someone who has driven to work through snow with summer tires several times -- in a RWD vehicle with an open differential, no less. He said those were some of the hairiest experiences of his life, but he made it. Was that unsafe, or did he just leave enough space ahead of him?

Instead of thinking of it as safe vs. unsafe, think of it as more safe vs. less safe.

Summer tires tend to be noticeably less grippy when it's cold out, and are pretty much useless when there's snow/ice/slush on the road. There is no doubt that all-season tires can be better in cold temperatures and real winter tires can make a night-and-day difference in snow. This is why I keep a set of winter wheels with proper winter tires on them. If there's any significant amount of snow, and if I can't avoid driving, I swap to my winter set and life is good.
 
I have used summmer Kumho ECSTA SPT's in the fall before (delaying my switch to winters as long as possible)...

the rubber compound in the low 40's, high 30's got very hard that I constantly broke traction without trying too hard on a slightly modded diesel.
 
I have driven a few in 20 degree weather and the traction was less than desired. It was an S600 and S320 on Dunlop SP9000's, and a Vette with Goodyear F1's.

In 2in of fresh snow the S320 was downright dangerous.

Just take it easy, you pretty much have to drive like its raining hard.
 
I can attest to the fact that Goodyear GS-D3's were useless when the temp was below about 40f, even on dry pavement. They got worse with more miles. When pavement was hot, they stuck like glue.

Michelin PS/2's were not as bad, but still slid around a lot in the cold, but stuck like glue when hot - even on wet roads.
 
Originally Posted By: CBR.worm
I can attest to the fact that Goodyear GS-D3's were useless when the temp was below about 40f, even on dry pavement.



Back in 2002 I owned a 95 Firebird Formula and in the first week of April I went out and bought a brand new pair of GS-D3 tires for the rear. Then one day with no warning we got hit with this really bad snow and ice storm during the work day, and I had to drive 25 miles home on those tires! They honestly weren't that bad! It took me 3 hours to get home that night (traffic was obviously very slow!) but at that slow pace it meant I was not going above 10 mph for most of the trip. I was also lucky that traffic never came to a complete standstill during that trip either, as I would have probably had a very hard time getting moving from a dead stop, especially on a hill.

I was also crazy enough in my youth to drive two different 5.0 Mustangs through a few winters, and on both of them I was running Goodyear Gatorback tires! At full tread I found those tires actually went through deep snow pretty well!
 
I having summer set tires on my mustang gt, some how we have a really bad snow weather in ms -_-. I have to use the mustang for emergency and it give me fish tail and no traction at all. I did a burn out to heat up the tires seem help, but I would not recomment doing burn out to heat up your summer tires for winter, You can drive but drive slow and becareful.
 
Thanks for the perspectives.

Originally Posted By: Cristobal
Did you just move here to California? My touring tires work great when it is cold and dry.


No, I've lived in CA all my life, but I've never really driven on summer tires.

Originally Posted By: d00df00d

This is entirely a matter of opinion. In any given situation, you'll find one person who will call it dangerous, and another who will say "just leave enough space ahead of you and you'll be fine." Technically, both are true. I know someone who has driven to work through snow with summer tires several times -- in a RWD vehicle with an open differential, no less. He said those were some of the hairiest experiences of his life, but he made it. Was that unsafe, or did he just leave enough space ahead of him?

Instead of thinking of it as safe vs. unsafe, think of it as more safe vs. less safe.

Summer tires tend to be noticeably less grippy when it's cold out, and are pretty much useless when there's snow/ice/slush on the road. There is no doubt that all-season tires can be better in cold temperatures and real winter tires can make a night-and-day difference in snow. This is why I keep a set of winter wheels with proper winter tires on them. If there's any significant amount of snow, and if I can't avoid driving, I swap to my winter set and life is good.


My opinion would tend to be that any situation that could reasonably be described as hairy or perilous is unsafe. I mean, I've driven in heavy rain on certain roads in my all seasons and you just have to slow down to keep it safe. If all we're talking about is minor, controllable, and somewhat progressive loss of traction then I think I'd be fine. I don't want to be sliding all over the place though. The car I'm talking about has traction control and AWD which I'm assuming would help as long as the driving is kept sane.

From all the responses so far it sounds like it would probably be safe, if I wanted, to keep the summers at least until it gets cold, but to be prepared to replace them on short notice if I don't feel comfortable.
 
Originally Posted By: CBR.worm
I can attest to the fact that Goodyear GS-D3's were useless when the temp was below about 40f, even on dry pavement. They got worse with more miles. When pavement was hot, they stuck like glue.


Ditto to everything above pertaining to BFG g force KDs.
 
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
Where do you live in California? Sounds like you are in the Gold Country, Mojave Desert, or the San Diego back country around Julian.


Central coast, San Luis Obispo county.
 
The tire manufacturers design to a 45 degree threshold. You can expect summer compounds to fall off noticeably below that and winters to wear quickly above that. I don't think you mentioned what your new car was going to be but, if it's very sporting, there are a new generation of high perf AS that are pretty darn good such as Bridgestone RE970AS.
 
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
The tire manufacturers design to a 45 degree threshold. You can expect summer compounds to fall off noticeably below that and winters to wear quickly above that. I don't think you mentioned what your new car was going to be but, if it's very sporting, there are a new generation of high perf AS that are pretty darn good such as Bridgestone RE970AS.


Oh, I'm not at all concerned about being able to find good high performance all-seasons. The question is whether to ditch the summer tires that come with the car immediately or not (presuming I actually go through with this).
 
Did not read all the responses thus far...

When I was researching winter tires to buy, I read that the consistancy of a summer tire at freezing temperatures is equal to that of a plastic bucket. Take that FWIW.

I bought winter tires last fall and then summer tires in the spring. The safety, braking, handling, and confidence under all conditions improved dramatically.

"Multi-purpose" or "all-season" anything allows for compromise.
 
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