Extending Drains on 14.0L S60 Detroit w/ EGR

[Gene K]

Im thinking of extending the drains on my Detroit.

Specs:
14.0L Series 60 w/ EGR (2004 EPA)
515 hp / 1650 Torque
10 Gallon Oil Capacity (Only 9 Gallons drain during Oil Change).
Warranty: None
Annual Mileage: 175,000 miles
Average MPG: 7.4 mpg
Average Power Loading: Under 35%
Idle Time: Under 10%
Oil Consumed: Average 1 gallon every 17,000 miles (Unchanged during lifetime)

Recommended OCI for Normal Service: 22,500 miles using ULSD and DDC Power Guard 93K218 Approved Oils (15,000 miles for CJ4 that isnt on the approved list)

Normal Service is defined as 60,000+ miles a year, 6.0+ mpg, less than 45% average power loading, and less than 35% Idle.

Ive been using 20,000 mile OCI but now that warranty is up and given my add oil, mpg, power loading and idle time Ive been thinking of pushing toward 30,000 miles (Which is standard interval for 2007 EPA Engines) as long as the UOA looks good.

PS The current oil is Rotella Triple T which is 93K218 Approved.

 

[oggb]

Goodness... 10 gallon sump.

How long does it take the oil in this thing to get to operating temp? I've always wondered that about big diesels.

 

[daman]

I don't see anything outa the ordinary here, go with your UOA and soot levels,30k seems doable sure...

what type filtration you using?

 

[Rob_Roy]

Gene, have you done any UOA's on your 20,000 mile drains? I am most curious to see what the soot level is. With EGR engines, soot is often the limiting factor. 30,000 miles may be achieveable with good filtration, but I would plan on installing a quickdraw sample valve (or use a vacuum pump) so you can easily take oil samples during the run.

 

[Gene K]

Originally Posted By: JRed
Goodness... 10 gallon sump.

How long does it take the oil in this thing to get to operating temp? I've always wondered that about big diesels.


In 95F weather under load about 20 minutes max. The oil cooler uses the coolant so also functions to quickly warm the oil. Oil temp in summer usually runs between 195-200F climbing to 220F in hard pulls.

The rear axles and transmission on the other hand take about 2 hours.

 

[Gene K]

Originally Posted By: daman
I don't see anything outa the ordinary here, go with your UOA and soot levels,30k seems doable sure...

what type filtration you using?


Just the standard duel oil filters which have a total of 1 gallon capacity.

I am considering trying the new Wix Ecolast 51971EC to see if any improvements occur after seeing waht I can do with the standard filters.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: Gene K
Originally Posted By: daman
I don't see anything outa the ordinary here, go with your UOA and soot levels,30k seems doable sure...

what type filtration you using?


Just the standard duel oil filters which have a total of 1 gallon capacity.

I am considering trying the new Wix Ecolast 51971EC to see if any improvements occur after seeing waht I can do with the standard filters.

I've been using(trying out the NAPA XE line filters)seems like quality built with good efficiency rating on my ISX500,no UOA yet.

http://www.fleetfilter.com/filter/wix-cummins-filters/57620XE.html

 

[xxch4osxx]

Doug Hillary would be handy to ask a question like this, as he has lots of experience with those motors.

 

[Gene K]

Originally Posted By: Rob_Roy
Gene, have you done any UOA's on your 20,000 mile drains? I am most curious to see what the soot level is. With EGR engines, soot is often the limiting factor. 30,000 miles may be achieveable with good filtration, but I would plan on installing a quickdraw sample valve (or use a vacuum pump) so you can easily take oil samples during the run.


I was running 30,000 mile drains with UOA on pre-EGR Cats since CAT would approve them with UOA.

Detroit pretty much says your on your on with extended drains. I was staying within the recommended OCI to protect the warranty so havnt done regular UOA. The last time I did a UOA it was 15,000 miles with CI4+ and LSD.(Detroit started out recommending 15,000 OCI, then 17,000 miles, then 20,000 miles and finally 22,500 miles on the 2004 EPA engines).

I should have a roughly 22,500 mile analysis coming up in the next few weeks.

 

[txgp17]

Originally Posted By: Gene K
Im thinking of extending the drains on my Detroit.
I'd look for a high quality bypass filter, and a UOA program to keep track of it.

I run an Amsoil bypass filter on my personal vehicle, but for a big-block diesel with an EGR, I'd want to remove as much soot as possible, which would lead me to a FS2500 bypass filter. They seem to filter soot really well.
Originally Posted By: JRed
Goodness... 10 gallon sump.

How long does it take the oil in this thing to get to operating temp? I've always wondered that about big diesels.
It depends largely on how you drive it.

I'm a career Firefighter. A while back I was assigned to a 2000-ish truck with a D60 in it. In the winter, you could pull it out, and idle it up to 1,000 RPM, and go get a cup of coffee. 15 minutes later the coolant temp wouldn't be above 110º. To get that truck warm, you had to drive it.

After that I was transferred to a 2007 D60 with a Variable Geometry Turbo and an EGR system. You can start that one, and leave it idling for about 10 minutes and it would reach operating temperature. I'm not sure but I think the VGT acts like an exhaust back pressure valve too. Plus the VGT on that thing gave it pep like I've never seen on any other firetruck. Throttle response was almost instant.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
Gene K - You are using a good lubricant that obviously suits your use

I suggest you determin the condition of the lubricant at your upcoming UOA. If OK then carry out another as determined from the UOA until the lubricant is unable to be continued with. Repeat until your OCI is safely confirmed

In particular I suggest you set UOA condemnation limits as follows (or as can be obtained from DD)

Soot max - 3%
Iron max - 150ppm
TBN min - 2 (to D4739)
TAN max - 75% of TBN
Viscosity - Within grade
Glycol - Negative
Water max - 0.3%
Copper max - 30ppm
Lead max - 30ppm
Fuel dilution max - 2.5%

And others as they appear (with Lab limits)

A synthetic - Shell have a good product - may enable you to extend your OCIs over what you are using but it may not be cost effective

A MANN-Hummel centrifige oil cleaner is perhaps a worthwhile add-on but only if the cost/effectiveness can be determined in advance

I hope this helps

 

[Gene K]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Gene K - You are using a good lubricant that obviously suits your use

I suggest you determin the condition of the lubricant at your upcoming UOA. If OK then carry out another as determined from the UOA until the lubricant is unable to be continued with. Repeat until your OCI is safely confirmed

In particular I suggest you set UOA condemnation limits as follows (or as can be obtained from DD)

Soot max - 3%
Iron max - 150ppm
TBN min - 2 (to D4739)
TAN max - 75% of TBN
Viscosity - Within grade
Glycol - Negative
Water max - 0.3%
Copper max - 30ppm
Lead max - 30ppm
Fuel dilution max - 2.5%

Thanks Doug, I really appreciate your advice. I failed to catch your post until you commented on the UOA.

And others as they appear (with Lab limits)

A synthetic - Shell have a good product - may enable you to extend your OCIs over what you are using but it may not be cost effective

A MANN-Hummel centrifige oil cleaner is perhaps a worthwhile add-on but only if the cost/effectiveness can be determined in advance

I hope this helps



Thanks Doug. I appreciate your input (sorry I didnt notice your post earlier.)

 

[Gene K]

UOA has been posted.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...rue#Post2332297

 

[addyguy]

Amsoil has interoduced a new, lost cost 'OE' 15W-40.

Might be worth looking into for, I dunno, 50k drains?