Mobil 1 0W40 UOA in Honda H22A4 Engine

[gerhardb]

Well,

The issue of oil consumption has a few factors in the H22A4 engine:

- VTEC

- Valve Seals

It appears that the valve seals in the engine have issues...

Otherwise, the engine is known to go through about 2 qts of oil every 3000-3500 miles normally.

The VTEC action of the engine causes it to burn oil by design.

 

[wwillson]

quote:

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Originally posted by gerhardb:
Well,

The VTEC action of the engine causes it to burn oil by design.

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I interested in why the VTEC design make the engine use oil. Could you explain?

Thanks,

Wayne

 

[gerhardb]

All Honda's with H22 series engines are designed to burn some oil.

The VTEC seems to accellerate the amount of oil that is burned.

Other than that... I'm not entirely sure why.

 

[Jelly]

quote:

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Originally posted by gerhardb:
All Honda's with H22 series engines are designed to burn some oil.

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How does the H22 design cause it to inherently burn oil (not including the VTEC system)?

 

[HondaRD]

To say the engine burns oil by design may be stepping out on a limb, but it is no surprise to anyone with an H22A engine that their car consumes a bit of oil.
The issue is related to their rings but I also think it has to do with other factors as well. Take the BMW M3 for example. It is a sweet ride with a high strung, DOHC V6 operating at 11.5 to 1 compression. In a Car & Driver article, they went through a lot of make up oil (can't remember exact number) as that thing would consume oil like no other but the writers did note something along the lines that it is no surprise either.
Honda/Acura cars equipped with 4 cylinder, DOHC VTEC engines (not the newer ivtec models) tend to consume oil as well, it is just that the Prelude tends to consume more than other models. I consider these engines to be a bit high strung as well since they operate at high compression ratios equal to or above 10:1 with redline being close to 8,000 rpm or higher.
Everyone I know including myself with a VTEC equipped vehicle (3 Preludes, 2 integras, 1 civic , and a del sol) all have to add oil at least once between oil changes. It is an inconvience but nothing more as it does not appear to influence the life or reliability of the engine and is considered normal throughout the Honda community. If this is what you mean by design, then I totally agree.

 

[JohnBrowning]

I do not think that I would be running synthetic if I was useing 2 quarts in roughly 4000 miles!! That gets expensive. Have you considered toping off with a non-synthetic like Delo,Delvac or Chevron supreme between oil changes?

P.S. AUTO-RX?

 

[gerhardb]

I'm posting this in response to a Castrol GTX highmilage UOA that I started.

Blackstone Labs

Honda Prelude H22A4 engine.

111,000 miles on engine.

Synthetic used for 95% of all of the oil changes.

Equipment Make: Honda
Equipment Model: 4cyl 2.2L H22A4
Fuel Type: Gas (Unleaded)

Oil Use Interval: 4100 Miles
Oil Type & Grade: Mobil 1 0w40 (gas)
Makeup Oil Added: 2Qts

Comments:

Gerhard: We don't think that Aluminum reading at 2ppm, about the universal average level will keep you up tonight worrying. It has improved since the last sample and is close enough to average to be considered normal. If the 15 ppm silicon is abrasive dirt escaping air filtration, it may be the cause of the high aluminum, being erosion from the piston tops. Otherwise you wear metals look perfect after 4,100 miles oil use run. With bearing wear this low, this engine should last you a long time. Other than silicon, no harmful contaminants found in theis oil, which was 0w40.

Sample Date 02/12/04
Mileage on Unit: 111,000
Miles on Oil: 4,100.

Aluminum: 6 ppm
Chromium: 1 ppm
Iron: 16 ppm
Copper: 2 ppm
Lead: 4 ppm
Tin: 1 ppm
Molybdenum: 79 ppm
Nickel: 0 ppm
Manganese: 0 ppm
Silver: 0 ppm
Titanium: 0 ppm
Potassium: 0 ppm
Boron: 159 ppm
Silicon 15 ppm
Sodium: 7 ppm
Calcium: 2878 ppm
Magnesium: 18 ppm
Phosphorus: 826 ppm
Zinc: 962 ppm
Barium: 0 ppm

SUS Viscosity @ 210F: 68.2 (Should be 65-76)

Flashpoint in F: 385 (should be >375)

Fuel %:
Antifreeze: 0%

Water: 0%

Insolutables: 0.4%

 

[Jelly]

I would just want to lower that oil consumption a little bit...

 

[tec97]

quote:

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Originally posted by Jelly:
I would just want to lower that oil consumption a little bit...

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H22s use oil. Mine went thru a quart or so every 2K miles. It's rare to find one that doesn't burn oil at this rate or a little higher.

 

[dagmando]

Back in 1990 when I was at Acura, normal consumption of the Integra 4-cyl was up to 1 qt per 1000 miles before it was considered out of normal range. We had many people conplain that they never added oil to their other cars and now they are adding at least a quart per oil change (3-5K) I have a 1995 Honda Odyssey 2.3 4cyl that burns no oil between the 5K dino oil changes, but it only has 75K miles.

 

[gerhardb]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
I do not think that I would be running synthetic if I was useing 2 quarts in roughly 4000 miles!! That gets expensive. Have you considered toping off with a non-synthetic like Delo,Delvac or Chevron supreme between oil changes?

P.S. AUTO-RX?

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John:

I'm not really familiar with Auto-RX... where to I get it... is it one of those additives that will screw up your oil like Lucas??

HondaRD:

Well, I thought that the manual indicated that the Prelude engine would use some oil. I've certainly read it on an offical Honda document somewhere before...

What actually concerns me is that in extremely cold weather I get a blue puff of smoke out the tail pipe, then the engine runs fine.

My compression is good [225 230 220 235] and the car has always done this [I'm the original owner].

 

[dropitby]

I would try 20/50 with summer coming perhaps it will help with all the miles and blue smoke

 

[gerhardb]

quote:

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Originally posted by dropitby:

I would try 20/50 with summer coming perhaps it will help with all the miles and blue smoke

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I don't have blue smoke with the car running... ever.

...only at start up when it's really cold out.

And it goes away immediately.

 

[Quick_lude]

That is a great report. As a former Prelude owner and one of the admins of www.hondaprelude.to, let me just say, most if not all H22A's will use oil one way or another. The H22a uses the most oil out of the Honda family fours that use VTEC. We have had some people in the club use upwards of 1quart/600miles.

Honda would not authorize a rebuild under warranty unless the engine consumes 1.5L/1000km or almost 2 quarts/600miles.

Bastards..
My own car used about 1 quart/1800 miles with the M1 0w40 and a bit more with the GC. The weird thing was that it would use almost nothing in the first 2,000 miles and then the usage would start. Most theories pointed to the rings, the rebuilt engines with new short blocks did not burn any oil at all.

 

[Jelly]

quote:

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Originally posted by Quick_lude:
That is a great report. As a former Prelude owner and one of the admins of www.hondaprelude.to, let me just say, most if not all H22A's will use oil one way or another. The H22a uses the most oil out of the Honda family fours that use VTEC. We have had some people in the club use upwards of 1quart/600miles.

Honda would not authorize a rebuild under warranty unless the engine consumes 1.5L/1000km or almost 2 quarts/600miles.

Bastards..
My own car used about 1 quart/1800 miles with the M1 0w40 and a bit more with the GC. The weird thing was that it would use almost nothing in the first 2,000 miles and then the usage would start. Most theories pointed to the rings, the rebuilt engines with new short blocks did not burn any oil at all.

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Rings, you say?

Thicker viscosity and high dose of moly!

 

[Quick_lude]

How thick though? I admit that for me switching from M1 10w30 to M1 0w40 reduced consumption but I couldn't run say 15w50 in this engine, especially during winter time.

 

[gerhardb]

These engines don't like 15w50 in them...

The valve train starts to make noise....

 

[Primus]

"most if not all H22A's will use oil one way or another"

Does it mean my H22A2 is not normal ? Apparently it is not. I've purchased the car with 114k km and my first 35K km it did not use oil at all, even after hours at 160-180 km/h. I don't think 100-250 ml/5000 km may be considered as an issue. However, the consumption doubled when I used Motul 0W-40 for the first time (may be a coinsidence) and next oil intervals was remaining nearly at the same level even after I switched back to its normal diet: 5W-40, 5W-50 and 10W-40. Last oil change was made at 170.000 km and now, after 6100 km interval, the oil level remained unchanged. It was 50/50 blend of Motul 300V 10W-40 and 76 Nascar Synthetic 10W-30.

As I know owners who have complainted about some oil use with 0W-40 and 5W-40 synthetics do not feel it when switch to 10W-40 semi-synthetic oils. From personal experience: the oil use slows down if the initial oil level is at 3/4 between gauge marks instead of being filled exactly till the upper mark.

 

[Road Rage]

quote:

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Originally posted by gerhardb:
All Honda's with H22 series engines are designed to burn some oil.

The VTEC seems to accellerate the amount of oil that is burned.

Other than that... I'm not entirely sure why.

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I have an S2000, and studying the schematic of the fuel system and the lubrication system does not show any deliberate design mechanism that would increase oil "burning" or consumption in the VTEC system. I thnk this is more likely an internet myth based on a misunderstandijng and the fact that Honda engines routinely spin higher than the vast majoroity of piston reciprocating engines, and any wear int he piston/cylindr interface, or via seals, is accelerated (no pun intended) by running at high RPM.

 

[gerhardb]

Well,

Considering that 3 different Honda dealers have told me that oil usage is normal... and that over the years many different Honda models have exibited this behavior...

I've assumed the oil usage is by design.

In the H22A4 engines there is a valve seal issue any 75% of them burn 1.5 to 3 qts every 3000 miles.