Liquimoly 5W40 '02 Toyota Ipsum 2.4L 2AZ-FE

[DavoNF]

7,200k's is about 4,400 miles (for our non-metric cousins).

Metals look OK, lead and tin are the standouts. Don't know the effect of the STP on this reading.

TBN of 10.5

I wonder what it started with?

Personally, I'd use a 15W-40 up there, don't you think the visc spead of a 5W-40 is a bit too much for a hot climate like yours?

A guess would be that the base oil is too thin, the oil sheared down and some bearing wear is occuring.

I suppose the viscosity results when you get them will complete the picture.

cheers

Dave

[ May 11, 2004, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: DavoNF ]

 

[JohnBrowning]

Looks like viscosity could be moved up one grade no problem. Generaly if Lead is higher the iron then you are running too thin of an oil. Do you lugg the engine in to high a gear or anything like that?

The additive package looks a little weak what I can see of it. I would try another brand of 5W40 or move right to a 15W50 or 20W50. Their are a lot of great oils in your area to choose from according to Ken4.

 

[Ian]

Following UOA on my 2002 Toyota Ipsum 2.4L 2AZ-FE (also known as Toyota Avensis Verso or Picnic in other regions). Viscosity results would be out shortly after the lab completes servicing of the test instrument.\

STP Fuel System cleaner was added at 34,285.9km, or 2months after the oil change.

Daily start-stop morning traffic for 15 - 25minutes. Average monthly driving on highway at 110-120km/h for 4-5 hours from Singapore to Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

2002 Toyota Ipsum 2.4L 2AZ-FE

Oil:
Liquimoly 5W40 (SYNTHOIL HIGH TECH 5 W-40 HD)
Miles on Oil : 7,197km
Miles on Engine : 36,240km
Time on Oil : 4 mths
Oil Added : 0

Metals (ppm)
------------
Aluminium (Al) 2
Copper (Cu) 1
Chromium (Cr) 1
Iron (Fe) 5
Lead (Pb) 14
Tin (Sn) 4

Contaminants / Additives (ppm)
------------------------------
Silicon (Si) 11
Sodium (Na) 3
Potassium (K) 0
Phosphorus (P) 769
Molybdenum (Mo) 37
Magnesium (Mg) 360
Calcium (Ca) 1670
Zinc (Zn) 978

Physical Tests
--------------
Total Base Number 10.5
Water (% by FTIR) N
Soot % 0
Oxidation (Abs) 51 (25.5%)
Nitration (Abs) 133 (66.5%)
Viscosity (cSt,100°C)
Viscosity (cSt,40°C)
Glycol (Abs) N
Petrol (% by Distillation) N

Any comments?

 

[Ian]

quote:

---

Originally posted by DavoNF:
7,200k's is about 4,400 miles (for our non-metric cousins).

Metals look OK, lead and tin are the standouts. Don't know the effect of the STP on this reading.

TBN of 10.5

I wonder what it started with?

Personally, I'd use a 15W-40 up there, don't you think the visc spead of a 5W-40 is a bit too much for a hot climate like yours?

A guess would be that the base oil is too thin, the oil sheared down and some bearing wear is occuring.

I suppose the viscosity results when you get them will complete the picture.

---

Thanks all for the feedback... I actually forgot to mention that during the oil change, we found out that the oil was leaking thru the Valve Cover Gasket to the plugs. Suppose that might have skewed the UOA to a certain extent..

On the STP, I agree that I should not have added that since that addition may affect any UOA. I only decided to do UOA just recently. As it is, I am 'engineering illiterate"...

Regards to the TBN of 10.5, is this too high? Or??

As for the visc spread, this oil was like the in-house oil for the workshop that I used. Only read about using narrower spread oils just recently, so right now, I am using the RP10W30.
Hope to see better results at next UOA with the RP10W30

 

[Ian]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
Looks like viscosity could be moved up one grade no problem. Generaly if Lead is higher the iron then you are running too thin of an oil. Do you lugg the engine in to high a gear or anything like that?

The additive package looks a little weak what I can see of it. I would try another brand of 5W40 or move right to a 15W50 or 20W50. Their are a lot of great oils in your area to choose from according to Ken4.

---

I did an oil change when taking the sample. Changed to RP10W30. Lots of start-stop trafiic in the morning to work for 20-30mins, so thought I will change to lower weight.

This Ipsum is an Auto Trans. So, I am not sure if it were on too high gearing? Always on O/D so that the ECU will choose the lower gears (supposedly, rite?)... however, I would reckon the car is usually on lower gears due to the start-stop traffic conditions every morning to work and back home in the evening.

I do drive at 100-120km/h for four hours to get to Kuala Lumpur almost once a month. Dun suppose that would be high gearing?

Currently, on choice of oils, I look to be using the RP10W30 for another oil change so as to have a better feel of the trend, before moving on to another brand of oil. Just wan to try the "uncommon" oils over here first...

Anything else I need to take note of?

 

[Ken4]

It has very strong TBN retention, which is good, possibly bcos this is an HD engine oil. Even oils like M1 will drop to around a ~6.0 or lower in about 4k miles. But the additive package doesnt look all that robust for an HDEO, esp the Calcium looks a little bit weak. The Moly could just be residuals from a previous oil. As far as I know LubroMoly (aka LiquiMoly in our parts) no longer uses Moly in their formulation.

I wouldnt worry too much about the elevated Pb or slightly elevated Sn at this time. You still have to establish some trends, and find an oil that is best suited for this vehicle and your driving pattern. I have a hunch thinner oils might not fair so well on this Ipsum. I have noticed my own Ipsum runs very hot. So hot that whenever I do an oil change, the drain plug gasket fuses to the bottom of the oil pan! I struggle just to scrape off the old drain gasket. Bits of the old gasket will still be stuck on the oil pan! I have measured the underhood temp and it is a good 10C hotter than my camry's. And the airbox temp is 5C hotter even though it has nice ductwork that sucks ambient air from the front & from the wheel well. I havent gotten around to install an oil temp gauge on my Ipsum yet, but my guess would be that the oil temp is at least 5~10C hotter than my camry's. My camry cruises on the highway with an oil temp of 105C, if I drive it hard it will hit 110C. So an Ipsum just cruising on the highway, might have oil temps in the 110C~115C range. So my guess is, you will probably get better wear results using a good synthetic 50wt instead. You should also try out GC (Castrol SLX A3 over here), even though it's thinner than LubroMoly 5w40, it's still thicker than the RP10w30 you're presently using, and most folks here love it, including PATMAN! It somehow gives very decent looking wear numbers, and doesnt thin out so easily.

 

[Ian]

Hi Ken,

Your assumption on the previous oil may be correct. Previous oil was LM 5W40 also. But the workshop did add in the LM MoS2 Oil additive during that oil change. This may have much Moly content, which may be giving the higher Mo reading for this sample.

On thinner oils not suitable for the Ipsum, should I not continue the RP10W30 for another oil cycle, so as to see the trend for this thinner oil, before moving back to slightly thicker oil like the Castrol GC? I do agree that the engine feels warmer than usually, but this is just own subjective feel. Only a thermometer will give a more objective view of this heat from the engine. What other ways to introduce air to cool the engine while travelling?

Does thicker oils lower the engine temp? How is that so? 50wt oils would compromise on FC and power right?

 

[Ian]

"I am running GC now and will only have results in about 2 months time. "

Hoping to see your results in 2 months' time, and the UOA on my RP10W30 in 5 months' time. Then we would have two UOAs on the Ipsum. Mine will be of "daily start-stop city driving" for 20-30mins out of total of 40mins trip, plus a once-a-month trip to KL @ average 100-120km/h for about 4-5 hours each way.

Thanks for all the feedback....

 

[Ken4]

It's still too early to say. It's only a hunch I have. There's not enough data here on the 2az-fe to show it doesnt work well with thinner oils. I am running GC now and will only have results in about 2 months time.

Thicker oils dont do much to lower temps, but it may help to give you a more ideal viscosity at your vehicles normal operating temperature. So if your cruising around with oil temps around 110C, a 50wt (e.g. vis@100C=19) is now having a viscosity of a 40wt (e.g. vis@110C=15).

Thinner oils, in general, will give better fuel economy and power. Esp for short trip city driving. But if you're doing longer trips, like the ones you take to KL and back, thicker oils make little difference, bcos the oil would have fully warmed up within 20~25mins and operating at a more ideal thinner viscosity. Thinner oils have their benefits, and if you're comfortable with the wear, stick with it.

I have experimented with 50wts, 40wts and 30wts on my camry and am comfortable with the wear results. I see more benefits using thinner oils for my short trip driving and therefore have no hesitation trying the even thinner Fuchs 0w20 next.

 

[Ian]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
Looks like viscosity could be moved up one grade no problem. Generaly if Lead is higher the iron then you are running too thin of an oil. Do you lugg the engine in to high a gear or anything like that?

The additive package looks a little weak what I can see of it. I would try another brand of 5W40 or move right to a 15W50 or 20W50. Their are a lot of great oils in your area to choose from according to Ken4.

---

Trying RP10W at the moment, and will have UOA in about 5months' time.....