New Experience - Crown Vic - Breaks Itself!

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Glad you're alright. Sorry about the car though.
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I was confused about how that could happen with the Crown Vic, until I saw the picture and remembered American models come with 50/50 split bench seats. I have 40/20/40 Town Car seats in mine, so nothing touches the cupholder/ashtray.
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
The car is not a slug, but it clearly lacks the "go" factor I would hope to get from a V-8, even a slightly small one (4.6L).


I wonder what rear axle ratio it has. It may have the 2.73 axle ratio--the P71 police models got a 3.27 axle ratio which does improve the "go" factor, at the expense of fuel economy (how much, I don't know).
 
Originally Posted By: cchase
It seems to me that BMW's can do this too, at least the ones that have the cupholder that mounts on the side of the console on the passenger side.


I am yet to come across a well designed cup holder in a German car. The cup holders in my Z4 are near the side vents and are a flimsiest design I have ever seen. A tall cup or a bottle can get chucked off board or in my lap in sharp turns.

Needless to say, the cup holders do not get used.
 
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: cchase
It seems to me that BMW's can do this too, at least the ones that have the cupholder that mounts on the side of the console on the passenger side.


I am yet to come across a well designed cup holder in a German car. The cup holders in my Z4 are near the side vents and are a flimsiest design I have ever seen. A tall cup or a bottle can get chucked off board or in my lap in sharp turns.

Needless to say, the cup holders do not get used.


Gotta agree. The ones on the M5 are like pop-out "fingers" that come out of the dash. I would not trust them to hold an XL Timmies coffee with some even moderately spirited driving.

The ones in the Expedition (it has four up front) are cavernous monsters with rubber inserts.
 
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
^ Hybrids only get better mpg due to smaller, more efficient engines. However, without the electric bits, they'd be so horrifically underpowered nobody would buy them. If you removed the electric motors and batteries from a hybrid, and kept the shut-off at stops and such, they'd get even better mpg, as it would weigh less.


Well, if you removed the "electric bits" but somehow preserved the dead-stop shut off feature, the car WOULD NOT be a hybrid, AND would be dangerously unresponsive from a dead-stop. In fact, such a car wouldn't be a "hybrid" at all. And while you're right that nobody would buy such a car, it is equally evident that nobody would BUILD such a car either. Ever. Since nobody would buy it. . . Get it???

Gassers are gassers, and hybrids are hybrids, just that simple. You can't harpoon the hybrids by mentally inventing a hybrid-hybrid that will NEVER, EVER EXIST. Hybrids work for many drivers. Diesels work for others. And plain gassers work still others.

Focus upon your own usage, make an informed decision FOR YOU and please, PLEASE, don't try to project YOUR REALITY upon everyone else. . .
 
Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
The car is not a slug, but it clearly lacks the "go" factor I would hope to get from a V-8, even a slightly small one (4.6L).


I wonder what rear axle ratio it has. It may have the 2.73 axle ratio--the P71 police models got a 3.27 axle ratio which does improve the "go" factor, at the expense of fuel economy (how much, I don't know).


I do not know, and I can not tell from the manual in the "glove compartment". I VERY STRONGLY suspect that my non-CVPI Crown Vic has the "higher mpg/lower performance" rear axle.
 
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
^ Hybrids only get better mpg due to smaller, more efficient engines. However, without the electric bits, they'd be so horrifically underpowered nobody would buy them. If you removed the electric motors and batteries from a hybrid, and kept the shut-off at stops and such, they'd get even better mpg, as it would weigh less.


There are lots of problems with this statement. Hybrid infinite ratio transmission would not work without "electric bits".
Regenerative braking would not work without "electric bits", etc, etc.

Besides, my Prius has 100HP gas engine. While this is weaker that average gas car of this size, this is higher than 20-30 years was considered adequate (and should be again).
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk

I do not know, and I can not tell from the manual in the "glove compartment". I VERY STRONGLY suspect that my non-CVPI Crown Vic has the "higher mpg/lower performance" rear axle.


I believe that most non-CVPIs got the low performance "gas miser" gear ratio.
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
I do not know, and I can not tell from the manual in the "glove compartment". I VERY STRONGLY suspect that my non-CVPI Crown Vic has the "higher mpg/lower performance" rear axle.


That information is actually on the door sticker, just above the lock striker on the driver's door, under the "AXLE" label. If the code is a "C8" or "58", it will have a 2.73 rear axle ratio.

Up until 1997, I believe 3.08 was the default standard. From 1998-2002, 3.08 was only for export models, which changed to 2.73 in 2003.

Previously, vehicles equipped with the Handling Package got the same 3.27 ratio as the CVPI, which was 3.55 at one point (1999 or 2000 I believe). Early 2001 CVPIs actually came with 3.55s as well, and are desirable for being the only model that came with 3.55s and PI heads from the factory. I believe the next more desirable model is 2004, for coming with a Marauder air box and MAF, as well as a more efficient zip tube and a mechanical throttle body (vs. TBW in 2005-2011).

That said, 2003+ vehicles with 2.73 axles are quite capable of achieving 27-30 MPG highway.
 
Falcon:

Thanks for the good info. C8 it is on this car, confirming my suspicion that this car has the "economy" axle. Other than perhaps my speed, and the car's -- ahem -- aerodynamics, this begs the question of why I came up so far short on the mpgs. I really didn't think 22+ was that bad for a car of this size, but if others are doing that much better, well, I'm curious.
 
Originally Posted By: Falcon_LS

That said, 2003+ vehicles with 2.73 axles are quite capable of achieving 27-30 MPG highway.


Agreed! My 2004 Grand Marquis has hit 30 twice on a trip from Southern Ca. to Phoenix - once in the winter, once in the summer. That is driving a reasonable speed - IIRC about 70 - 75 in Ca. and about 75 in Arizona (the legal limit). Can't remember ever getting lower than 25 on a long trip (of 300 or more miles)

I've made 2 trips from Southern Ca. to Seattle and both times got between 25 - 27 MPG, with 4 adults and trunk so full the lid would barely close! (Two of the adults were my college age daughters - now you know why the trunk was so full! LOL!)
 
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ekpolk,

I used to own a 2007 Grand Marquis, which also came with a 2.73 rear axle ratio versus 3.08 on my 2001. It got better fuel economy, but it also had an additional 15 horsepower and 15 lb-ft of torque (239 hp/287 lb-ft versus 224 hp/272 lb-ft) because of its dual exhaust system. Whilst it still had the economy axle, acceleration was almost as good as my 2001. But the 2001 definitely has better get up and go, especially at WOT.

That said, as much as I try, unfortunately I cannot use cruise control regularly because of the number of cars on the road and the highway crawling down to a stop regularly. But on a long trip, I found cruise control really does help get that extra MPG. Whilst I used to average 11.8 L/100 km (20 MPG) with the 2007, on a long trip to Dubai, I averaged 8.6 L/100 km (27.5 MPG)! Not too shabby for a 4,000 lb car.
smile.gif
 
I dont know about middle eastern spec, but IIRC 3.08 hasnt been used since the boxes here. Someone got some info from someone who knew a friend of a guy who worked at a mickeyDs that took a order from a ford engineer once that it was because of NVH issues with that ratio. Now is this true? I dont know. But nobody has tried that ratio. Most people who upgrade axle ratio are going to at LEAST 3.27 with the majority to 3.55 or lower.
 
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Not sure to be honest. Panthers have always come with a 3.08 rear axle ratio as standard for the Middle East up until 2003. The Handling and Performance Package was also known as the "Export Handling Package" or simply "Handling Package", because a steeper rear axle ratio wasn't part of it. It was simply a suspension package in this market and was standard on LX/LS models. Starting 2010, it was made standard on base Crown Vics (except LWB, Police and Commercial) and Grand Marquis GS models as well.

That said, oxygen sensors and catalytic converters were never available on these cars for this market until 2003 either. The build sheet and OASIS report for my car even has "Leaded Fuel Capability" on it, even though unleaded has been available since 1996 in Kuwait. Then again, I think Saudi didn't switch to unleaded until the early 2000s.

I think it was Alex (GM Guy) who told me someone at STAP said "anything goes" for the export market.
 
Our '92 Crown Vic had 190 hp from the 4.6L engine and single exhaust, and a 2.73:1 axle ratio. There was a dual exhaust option, which kicked it up to 210 hp. We averaged 23-24 mpg on the road with it. That car saw many trips back and forth between Virginia and Michigan/Arkansas, so we had a good handle on mpgs. It was a great road car. Around town, the steering system didn't have a lot of "self center" in it. I suspect caster was closer to neutral than they put in cars these days.
 
EKpolk - That was my point. It would get better mpg, but by removing the hybrid bits, it would be to flawed and impractical for anyone to buy one, and manufacturers know that, so they don't build them that way.

Ford still offers the Crown Vic, just only for fleet sales. They stopped selling to the public after 2008.
 
Originally Posted By: ddrumman2004
Hmm...and I thought Ford didn't offer a 2011 Crown Vic....


Not for the public they don't. But the dinosaur is still available for fleet sales -- to gov't agencies and fleet owners. You want one -- call Enterprise, Hertz, or Avis...
 
That said, 2012 Crown Vics will be export only, where they are still available to the public. There's going to be huge batches coming this way before the plant closes in mid September. 2011 is the last year for the vehicle in the US.
 
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