Oil Sludge in '04 Nissan Xterra w/pics

[westwood]

Hi,

I have a 2004 Nissan Xterra V6 2WD w/81K miles. Both head gaskets has small external leaks and needed replacing. Once heads were off I got a call from dealer saying the engine had oil sludge and best bet was a new $5,700 motor.

I mentioned how a motor with 81K can have sludge, let alone two bad head gaskets, and their answer was bad oil or long intervals between changes. The car has always had Castrol, Pennzoil or Chevron and I think the most I ever went between changes is 5,100. Most of them were in the 3-4k range.

I guess my question is, how bad does it look from these photos and am I screwed on this engine or can it be cleaned somewhat?

And if cleaned, what would be the suggestion? I was looking online at engine cleaners and the opinions are all over the place. If people agree that cleaners don't tear your engine up and/or are a waste of money, then they are arguing about brands. Then there is the kerosene and ATF crowd. And the use synthetic to flush it out crowd. Do any of these methods have merit? (For what it's worth, the garage I normally go to said if I wanted to do the cleaning they use Justice Bros., BG or LucasOil.)

Thank you for any advice.

 

[JHZR2]

Do you drive with a heavy foot? Ever maintain the cooling system?

Have receipts for all the oil changes ever done?

So you brought in the truck because you had coolant leaking outboard of the engine, right? How much? How long did you notice this for? Did you run the engine low on coolant? if so, how many times? How many times did the needle hit the red? How long did you let it run at the red?

These questions will let us answer the question better.

Did you notice any issues with driveability/power before bringing it into the dealer?

Removing sludge is a lousy, time-consuming thing... with no guarantees of success. You might spend $5k just to take it all apart and get it clean, and then just to have issues down the line... While a rebuilt installed ma not cost much more and have a higher chance of success.

Tough thing, but more insight per the questions I gave would help...

 

[The_Eric]

If there isn't any appreciable wear in the bearings, I'd say clean out manually (including removing the oil pan) and screw it back together.

You're going to have to figure way it sludged up now... PCV valve? Fuel dilution? Coolant?

 

[fdcg27]

Wow.
4-5K changes on any oil didn't cause this.
My guess is that coolant has gotten into the oil, as a consequence of the bad head gaskets.
You are really between a rock and a hard place.
If the thing can be put back together at a reasonable cost, I would probably go with Kreen to try to clean it out.
Problem is, coolant is death to main bearings, and I can't see anything other than coolant causing this kind of sludge on fairly short OCIs.
You have to make a tough choice.
Can you get the thing out of the dealer's shop?
Google Japanese takeout engines for this thing.
A low miles used engine might be your most cost effective option, maybe 3K installed.

 

[westwood]

The leak was a minor one (maybe an inch, if that, a month in overflow container) and the engine never overheated. The problem, though, was it was diagnosed with a leaky head gasket while under warranty, but after a week the dealer said it was a bypass hose instead. But smell persisted for months and another shop insisted it was the head gasket. Now out of warranty, but Nissan is partially covering it.

The cooling system has been drained and replaced a couple times (thanks to a deer and a sudden snow storm).

I do have all the receipts for the oil changes. Light driver, mostly in city (though highway for most of that).

The engine sounded fine and my mileage on highway was 20-23 so there were no noticeable issues there.

I'm assuming, at least so far, no one here is putting much stock into any chemical cleaners, right?

 

[westwood]

So I take the photos aren't good? I had Googled engine oil sludge and saw some pics where it looked like a vat of pudding had been dumped in there, so I was hoping perhaps mine wasn't as tragic. But I'm getting the feeling I'm not going to be that lucky.

 

[JasonC]

I would have to weigh the value of the vehicle compared to the cost of the repair. I, personally would never invest more than 50% value of the vehicle into a repair.

 

[tig1]

If you want to try and save this engine pull the pan and clean it out from top to bottom. Don't use cleaners as much of the sludge may work it's way through the bearings, etc. After cleaning, go with a quality synthetic, and change the oil filter every 2K for a while.

 

[westwood]

Well, I'm currently in for $830 now. I was having them put a new timing belt, water pump and tensioner, as the engine was already apart. I get a feeling that may have been a waste.

Nissan did say a "bandaid" would be to have the oil intake screen cleaned. I mention that to my shop and they said it would be a 3.5 hour job. He couldn't believe that, so checked another section to confirm. So apparently Xterra's oil pans aren't as easy to remove as an old Ford Falcon I changed as a kid.

tig1, so you'd recommend M1 and multiple changes to flush out?

 

[rshaw125]

I've seen worse.Fix the mechanical issues ,head gaskets. PP for 3,000 mile oil changes. You'll be fine.

 

[Lost1]

IMO it's not that bad- in my 36 years as a mech I've seen much worse. Was it ticking or knocking or making any funky noises when you drove it in? If not, clean as much as you can while it's apart, make sure nothing (like coolant) is leaking any more, then button it back up & drive it home. Folks on this site seem to have pretty good results with that Auto RX stuff, so give that a shot. Run a few cleaning OCI's through it then switch to a good synthetic for high-mileage engines (like Max Life) and drive it till the wheels fall off.
You could easily get another 50k miles out of that engine, as long as the sludging is stopped and/or reversed...

 

[westwood]

Thanks. There were no noises or anything to make one think something was amiss. It was just getting Nissan to fix the head that happened to uncover the mess.

For a cleaning OCI, what would you recommend miles wise?

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: westwood
Well, I'm currently in for $830 now. I was having them put a new timing belt, water pump and tensioner, as the engine was already apart. I get a feeling that may have been a waste.

Nissan did say a "bandaid" would be to have the oil intake screen cleaned. I mention that to my shop and they said it would be a 3.5 hour job. He couldn't believe that, so checked another section to confirm. So apparently Xterra's oil pans aren't as easy to remove as an old Ford Falcon I changed as a kid.

tig1, so you'd recommend M1 and multiple changes to flush out?


Only after a manual cleaning as I described before. If you want to use M1 I would go with 5-30HM and change the filter every 2K, then change the oil at 6K. Repeat that twice and if no real engine damage has occured, my bet would be your engine will be good to go for a long time.

 

[westwood]

I guess I better make an appointment for the oil pan cleaning. Seems insane it will cost >$400, but after checking online it appears a bunch of front-end stuff needs removing to access the oil pan. But cheaper, if it works, than new engine. Thanks.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: westwood
I guess I better make an appointment for the oil pan cleaning. Seems insane it will cost >$400, but after checking online it appears a bunch of front-end stuff needs removing to access the oil pan. But cheaper, if it works, than new engine. Thanks.


Several years ago(20) a friend had a 85 Mustang 5.0 with about 150K. He was traveling a lot for his job and abused his OCIs on dino. 10-15K. He was on the east coast and noticed his oil PSI slowly droping. Finally had to have the car towed to a garage and had the valve covers removed and found a lot of sludge. He decided to have the engine cleaned(pan was droped). He called me and decided on the same post cleaning I advised you, only with M1 10-30. He went on to drive the car for many miles afterward. To this day he still owns the Pony, but it's a toy now, and someday plans to completely restore it.

 

[chubbs1]

As most have said I think your best bet is getting the leaks fixed, the pan/screen cleaning and M1 or PP/PU every 3k. Be safe w/ the short OCI's....at least the first 4-5.

 

[westwood]

That's encouraging news, thanks.

Would you recommend Auto-RX as an additional precaution?

 

[westwood]

Newbie question, but what is PP/PU?

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: westwood
Newbie question, but what is PP/PU?

Pennzoil Platinum ans Pennzoil Ultra, full synthetic motor oils.
They are known for cleaning well.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: rshaw125
I've seen worse.Fix the mechanical issues ,head gaskets. PP for 3,000 mile oil changes. You'll be fine.


x2 I have seen worse. If your engine runs fine I see no need to replace it. Might just be the dealership trying to squeeze a few bucks out of you. I find it interesting how they wait until after the warranty to "find" the real problem. I'd do the head gasket and run Pennzoil Ultra for short oil change intervals like mentioned above.