2010 Camaro LLT V6 Oil Pressure

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I've posted the below on another forum and haven't had much response. I apologize if this has been discussed ad nauseum here but a search didn't find quite what I was looking for:

"A couple of questions have come into my head over the last couple months since the Camaro has left the garage.

a) What oil pressures are "normal" and "optimum" for our LLT's at load and idle? My oil pressure gauge spends most of its time in the upper 1/4th or 1/5th. At 70mph cruise it's at appx 45-50. Even at idle after an hour drive it only barely drops below 30psi.

b) What is the pressure that initiates by-pass for the LLT? If I'm running such high psi would I be better off switching to an XW-20 to have higher flow for the same pressure which would potentially aid my engine at high rpm. This is assuming that adequate pressure is generated at low RPM.

c) Other than cost (by necessitating a synthetic oil) why would anyone use a 5W-XX instead of 0W-XX? They operate the same at running temp but the 0W-XX is thinner at start-up.

To start some discussion, a quote from BITOG:
"The best way to figure out what viscosity of oil you need is to drive the car in the conditions you will use. Then use the oil viscosity that gives you 10 PSI per 1,000 RPM under those circumstances. For some reason very few people are able to get this simple principal correct. I cannot explain further... You should use whatever it takes to get 75 PSI at 6,000 RPM during the lifetime of the engine. This formula works in all situations.
Some people have tried this and occasionally get a somewhat low oil pressure while at idle. This is fine. There is no stress on parts at idle, the smallest oil flow will do the trick. It is at higher RPM where more BHP is produced. This is where we need the flow. Remember that Ferrari uses 75 PSI at 6,000 RPM as the place to test your oil viscosity needs. If your oil gives this value under your driving conditions then your lubrication system has been maximized. Period."

By applying the above I'm at more of a 20-25psi/1k rpm prior to reaching the max on the gauge. Obviously I ask above where the by-pass kicks in as that is where you reach constant pressure regardless of rpm.

Thoughts?"
 
My initial thought is to let you know not to place much weight in the oil pressure gauge included with the instrument cluster and to connect a mechanical gauge to get a better sense of what you're actually seeing, to start anyway.
 
Yeah... GM was god with providing real gauges... Is your OP gauge real?

I know in my 98 chevy truck with a real gauge, it will be roughly 55psi at startup and under any load, but when the oil is full hot, will reduce to about 30 psi at idle only.

Oil viscosity and filter have some effect, how much I can't really say as I think it is application/engine family specific...
 
Is there a place I can be pointed to for checking with another gauge? I'd imagine at least the signal for the one on the dash would be reliable based on all I've heard of GM's OLM.
 
if you want to eliminate all other op noise factors, plumb a mechanical gauge after the oil filter-can't get better than that.
And NOT a JC Whitney quality gauge either
 
Originally Posted By: MMX_RS

To start some discussion, a quote from BITOG:
"The best way to figure out what viscosity of oil you need is to drive the car in the conditions you will use. Then use the oil viscosity that gives you 10 PSI per 1,000 RPM under those circumstances. For some reason very few people are able to get this simple principal correct.


Thoughts?"


Yeah, some of the info here on BITOG is contradictory to what the mfgr's recommend for a "normally" driven vehicle... Use the recommended oil(esp since it's a new vehicle with a warranty)and sleep soundly... In reality you could likely use WD-40 for motor oil and maintain the "supposed" recommended pressures... Good idea??? Hardly...

Not all engines have the same pressure requirements, it's not a one size fits all... The Ford "Cleveland" engenes had such a poor oiling system that if you were going to spin it past 6000 RPM often, you better have 80-90 psi... The NASCAR boys modified the system and ran 120 psi to get them to live at 7500 RPMs...
 
Isn't the sensor on the base of the oil housing on the LLTs post-filter already? It's not an idiot gauge, it functions. I'm more interested in what the results are telling me about my engine.

TFB1 since it is under warranty I'm sure I'll keep to a 30 for now. I'm just inquisitive by nature and wondering why the pressures are so high considering it's generally not a hydrostatic system. You only need enough pressure to make sure oil flows without delay. As I understand it, and please correct if wrong, oil is not being "forced" anywhere, just pushed to the entrance and allowed to flow through the system to bathe the engine components.
 
Originally Posted By: MMX_RS
You only need enough pressure to make sure oil flows without delay. As I understand it, and please correct if wrong, oil is not being "forced" anywhere, just pushed to the entrance and allowed to flow through the system to bathe the engine components.


Not so... It is necessary for the pressure to "push" the oil into the passages which lead to the crankshaft, camshaft, hydraulic lifters and upper regions of the engine... All these passages are above the oil level in the pan and are in the range of 3/8"-smaller, so oil must have adequate pressure to force it to the bearings, hydraulic lifters etc...
 
Originally Posted By: MMX_RS
Isn't the sensor on the base of the oil housing on the LLTs post-filter already? It's not an idiot gauge, it functions. I'm more interested in what the results are telling me about my engine.

TFB1 since it is under warranty I'm sure I'll keep to a 30 for now. I'm just inquisitive by nature and wondering why the pressures are so high considering it's generally not a hydrostatic system. You only need enough pressure to make sure oil flows without delay. As I understand it, and please correct if wrong, oil is not being "forced" anywhere, just pushed to the entrance and allowed to flow through the system to bathe the engine components.
So you read oil 101? So is the writing fact ,fiction or opinion? Just because it is on the internet doesn't mean it is fact.
 
I'll bet the oil pressure gauge is not accurate. 30 psi at idle doesn't sound right. Cadillac's Northstar engine would only run about 5 psi at idle, and 30 psi under cruise.

I don't have the service manual for that engine, but I'll bet that if you were to look it up, the spec is much lower than 30 psi at idle. Any higher oil pressure than is necessary is just wasteful. That's not Oil 101 talking, that's fuel economy talking.
 
Originally Posted By: Steve S
So you read oil 101? So is the writing fact ,fiction or opinion? Just because it is on the internet doesn't mean it is fact.


I won't claim it as scripture, as it is obviously based on opinion and is stated to be "basics" but it is well written and doesn't cut against my own engineering logic.

That said, your own statement wasn't helpful at all as opposed to others. I'm here to learn, not as a forum for you to toss out snide remarks about the site you yourself "contribute" to.

Moving on... I'm going to be getting data from follow camaro owners to determine if my engine is behaving outside the norm for that block. Then I'll see about getting a new reference pressure from my car.
Regardless my questions in the OP still kinda hold for knowledge purposes even if not directly used for my situation
 
I get uncomfortable with any engine that doesn't idle at least 20psi @ 550-650 RPMs...
 
Temperature of the oil is a huge factor.
What are you running at in different conditions?
[Just cruising or playing hard.]

If it gets hot enough , you'll need thicker oil.
 
Originally Posted By: MMX_RS
Then I'll see about getting a new reference pressure from my car.


I'll bet a Chevy dealer could look that information up for you. I know they have it. Whether or not they share it, that's another thing.

Originally Posted By: MMX_RS
Regardless my questions in the OP still kinda hold for knowledge purposes even if not directly used for my situation


Regarding your question about 0W vs 5W oils, I agree with you. Cost no object, if you're looking at a 0W-30 and a 5W-30 on the shelf, and both are the same price, the 0W-30 is going to provide you the better value, for the most part. There may be some hard-core racing or towing applications where you might want a touch more stability with an oil with less of a viscosity spread, but for most general-use applications, I see few reasons to pick a 5W over a 0W.

Caveat #1: Unless you bring cost into the equation and would otherwise buy a jug of 5W-20 or 5W-30 Motorcraft for $13.50. But if you're a premium synthetic guy anyway, and are going to buy the Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum/Ultra or Valvoline SynPower anyway, 0W oils are a good all-around choice.

Caveat #2: If you're like me and want a synthetic oil, but want it for the best price possible, you buy in jugs rather than quarts. Some 0W oils are only bottled (that I can tell anyway) in quarts, which retail for 6, 7, 8 dollars a quart. I'm thinking oils like 0W-20 SynPower or 0W-30 GC. Meanwhile, the 5W-20 Platinum or Edge with SynPower is sitting there for $20-25/jug ($4-5/quart). In this case, I typically will pick the 5W in the jug. My last oil change in the Acura was with Ultra 5W-20, only because Pennzoil doesn't have this out in 0W-20 yet. Once they do, I'll certainly try it.

By the way, welcome to the forum!
 
The gauge is not an "idiot" gauge, but the factory gauges on these cars are not particularly accurate, either.

That was my reasoning behind suggesting going to a mechanical gauge to confirm.
 
It is your car believe what ever you think , If it doesen't cut against your engineering logic go for it. What is posted on this or any site doesn't mean there is a bit of fact in the article. As posted check with Chevrolet and find the truth. A while ago I installed a real nice engine" top of the line parts balanced all the clearances right on I measured and remeasured them" in a car and about 3 or 4 minutes into the run initial run the owner stuck his head in the window and looked at the oil pressure gauge and said I have to use a thinner oil cause the oil pressure was 50 psi at a little over 2000 rpm. I asked why and oil 101 facts were reguritated to me. I knew it was oil 101 though. There are people on this site that really know what is and isn't and with some discernment you can easily pick out the posts.
 
Wow. I love it when somebody thinks they know everything, and really, doesn't know jack. I see this car getting wrapped around a telephone pole, or the engine blowing up within a year or two.
 
Originally Posted By: Steve S
A while ago I installed a real nice engine" top of the line parts balanced all the clearances right on I measured and remeasured them" in a car and about 3 or 4 minutes into the run initial run the owner stuck his head in the window and looked at the oil pressure gauge and said I have to use a thinner oil cause the oil pressure was 50 psi at a little over 2000 rpm. I asked why and oil 101 facts were reguritated to me.


Yup if one bothers to check specifications, virtually any mfgr will list normal oil pressure at 2K RPMs as 35-65psi... If mine isn't producing a hot pressure of at least 40 psi, I'm finding out why...

Taking Oil 101 into consideration, I suppose the high volume/pressure oil pumps that probably every vendor produces, must be gimmicks...
 
Penske Chevy got back with me with 10psi at idle and 20psi @2k rpm.
Also, the piston cooling jets are pressure activated and come on between 25-33psi.
 
My Cadillac CTS and my Dad's both with the 3.6DI like your Camaro also run about 40-50psi driving and about 20-25 at idle. That appears to be what they all run based on the oil pressure gauge. Now there are 2 new CTS-V's at work and they will show 10-20 at idle and 30-50 running...these are the 6.2L engines of course.
 
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