Question about oil ratings...'03 Passat V6

[mcseforsale]

OK, so I've read all of the BITOG lessons and scored 100 on the final exam. I want to thank the author for one of the most informative and important automotive articles I've read in several years.

But, since this is all relatively new to me,I'm a bit confused on the standarization of oils and how they inter-relate.

Basically, I have a 2003 Passat V6 30V. I bought the car after a particularly nasty timing belt break, so basically the entire top end is new, and the bottom end has 172000 miles on it.

My manual states that VW 503.01 5w-40 meeting ILSAC GF-3 be used for oil changes while ILSAC GF-3 5W-30 may be used for "topping up only.

So, what does it mean now that we are at ILSAC GF-5 specs on things like Mobil 1 0w-30?

Tha care lives in Atlanta where temps outside usually range 90+ several months a year (I know, not a factor).

So, would Mobile1 0w-30 technically MEET OR EXCEED Ilsac GF-3 by because it's GF-5? Are these standards dumulative?

I'm probably going to start with 5K OCIs using WIX filters until I learn the car better (I'm new to the car ..this is our first OC together )

Thanks!
AJ

 

[cmf]

Originally Posted By: mcseforsale
So, would Mobile1 0w-30 technically MEET OR EXCEED Ilsac GF-3 by because it's GF-5? Are these standards dumulative?


The standards are tougher than the previous and provide at least the same level of performance as previous in each aspect (wear/cleanliness/etc).

In short, a GF-5 oil will meet or exceed all standards set by GF-4, GF-3, etc.

In case you don't believe me: http://www.canadianoil.se/Bulletiner/nya_motoroljespecifikationer_2011.pdf

"ILSAC GF-5 is the latest version of this industry general specification, and replaces the previous specification, ILSAC GF-4, which was introduced in 2004.

ILSAC GF-5 is fully backwards compatible with all previous ILSAC GF standards."

 

[zyxelenator]

Your manual clearly states to use 40 weight oil, why don't use it? Plus Atlanta can get hot..

 

[toyotapriusguy]

Originally Posted By: zyxelenator
Your manual clearly states to use 40 weight oil, why don't use it? Plus Atlanta can get hot..


I have to agree, unless there is 503.01 VW spec 5w-30 then I would be ok using that.

 

[zyxelenator]

Some 503.01 list from European forum:
Addinol Extra light MV 038
BP BP Visco 7000 Special
Castrol Bot SLX/A
Castrol Formula SLX (NOT Longlife II)
DEA DEA Ultec SYN-T
Esso Ultron (Fuel Economy)
Fuchs Supersyn SL
Fuchs Titan Supersyn SL
Fuchs Labo RC
Ginouves York 748
Huilles Labo Labo RC
Kuwait Petroleum Q8 Formula Special
Liqui Moly Synthoil Longtime
Meguin Megol Motorenol Super Leicht Lauf Multisynth
Motul Motul 6100 LL-01
Oel-Brack Quaker State Synquest
Panolin Racing Synth DC
Pentosin Pentospeed 0W30VS
Shell Helix Ultra
Teboil Diamond Plus
Texaco Havoline Synthetic DS
Unil Opal Opaljet 32 S
Valvoline Synpower MXL
Vaps Vapsoil 50301
Vaps Vapsoil Syn 030
Veedol Syntron
Agip 7006
Aral SuperTronic
Mobil 1

I know that Liqui\Lubro Moly can be easily(and cheaper) ordered thru Napa. Mobil 1 should be easy to get,Castrol same way, not sure about the rest, probably thru internet if you want specific oil.

 

[zyxelenator]

List of the most common VW standards

* VW 500.00 – VW spec for multigrade engine oils for petrol engines with SAE 5W-X/10W-X viscosity for engines built up until August 1999 (MY 2000).
* VW 500.00 + 505.00 – Oil meets both VW 500.00 and 505.00 spec.
* VW 501.01 – VW spec for petrol engines for engines built up until August 1999 (MY 2000).
* VW 501.14 – Brake fluid with low viscosity, VW 2006>.
* VW 502.00 – VW spec, oil for petrol engines. Successor of VW 501.01 & 500.00 spec.
* VW 503.00 – Long-life petrol engine oil for VW cars with WIV. Meets ACEA A1, SAE 0W-30 or 5W-30. Suitable for the AUDI S4, engines with an output greater than 180bhp should use 503.01 or 504.00/507.00.
* VW 503.01 – Special engine oil for some VW petrol engines. SAE 5W-30. Suitable for the Ausi RS4, TT, S3 and A8 6.0 V12.
* VW 504.00 – Long-life petrol engines with WIV.
* VW 505.00 – Passanger car diesel engine oil, minimum performance level CCMC PD-2. Lists viscosities:- SAE 5W-50, 10W-50/60, 15W-40/50, 20W-40/50 requiring 13% max evaporation loss and SAE 5W-30/40, 10W-30/40 requiring 15% max evaporation loss.
* VW 505.01 – Special engine oil for VW turbodiesel with pump-injector-unit and for the V8 commonrail turbodiesel engines. Meets ACEA B4 SAE 5W-40 spec.
* VW 506.00 – Special long-life engine oil for turbodiesel engines with WIV, viscosity is SAE 0W-30.
* VW 506.01 – Special long-life oil for turbodiesel engines with pump-injector-unit with WIV.
* VW 507.00 – Long-life diesel engine oil with WIV.
* VW 508.00 – Fuel economy low saps oil in development.

http://my-gti.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/volkswagen_technical_bulletin17-08-01engine_oils.pdf

http://www.my-gti.com/wp-content/uploads/vw_oil_50200_50500_24_09_2008.pdf
http://www.my-gti.com/wp-content/uploads/vw_oil_50400_50700_24_09_2008.pdf
http://www.my-gti.com/wp-content/uploads/vw_oil_50400_50700_24_09_2008.pdf

 

[rshunter]

Lets make this easy...

1: Go to WalMart.

2: Find bottles of Mobil 1 0W-40 in the Automotive Department.

3: Buy said bottles, take them home and perform LOF change with chosen WIX oil filter.

4: Relax in your favorite chair, with the frosty beverage of your choice.

5: Forget about it for the next 6 months...

 

[UG_Passat]

to put it shortly, there was some ambiguity in VW & Audi's wording of the oil requirements which lead to to the longitudinal 1.8T oil sludge fiasco, which allowed owners and dealers to use conventional 5w30 oil and still meet warranty requirements.

so, in 2004, VW became strict and actually specified the VW standard only.

So, if you want to go by what's in the book, find a 503.01 oil.... kinda difficult and Mobil 1 0w40 no longer has that certification and find a specific 503.01 is kinda hard, unless you order online.

Many of us, end up using HDEO instead, such as Shell Rotella T6 or Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck -- both available at Wally World.

Oil filters? Mann filters. You can get them quite cheap online.

 

[bruno]

Go with Mobil 1 0-40 or Castrol Syntec 5-40 , both VW 502 approved . The later 503 spec is for European cars with variable oil change intervals .

 

[dbrowne1]

There aren't too many oils in the U.S. that still carry the "official" 503.01 stamp of approval. GC used to have it I believe.

Mobil 1 ESP 5w-30 carries the oil manufacturer's "unofficial" certification that it meets 503.01 (along with just about every other VW spec) and if you think about it, that makes sense. I seem to recall reading that many/most 503.1 oils were 5W-30 extended drain interval formulas, which is exactly what this oil is designed for.

Otherwise, I'd say any 502.00 or 504.00 oil should be fine on a conservative fixed interval.

 

[mcseforsale]

Because ambient temp doesn't mean much. According to all the articles on this site, it shouldn't even be a contributing factor.

Plus, it gets no hotter here than it does in my home state of Ct. In fact, the ambient temps are usually the same in the summer, but we don't get the humidity New England gets. It just gets hot more days in a row.

AJ

Originally Posted By: zyxelenator
Your manual clearly states to use 40 weight oil, why don't use it? Plus Atlanta can get hot..

 

[mcseforsale]

OK, so what I'm getting is that my manual states ILSAC GF-3 and I can use any oil approved GF-3 and above in 40 weight. With my current mileage, should I forgo the use of full synth perhaps for a synth blend such as Valvoline Max Life, or is there no issues with using full synth on an engine with this many miles on it..albeit on the bottom end only.

Actually, my manual specifies either dino or synth.

hmmm. My manual also calls for 5K OCI, so if I go with full dino, I can go 5K, so with full synth...perhaps 7500 to 10k? Since the WIX filter is supposed to be as good, if not better than the Mann, or Mahle, I'm not too worried about that.

My main purpose here is to get quality and extend my OCI. I drive about 80 miles per day and I would like to extend the service interval.

Thanks for all your help.

AJ

 

[Scum_Frog]

Castrol Syntech 5W-40
Mobil 1 0W-40
Pennzoil Ultyra 5W-40 Euro
QSUD 5W-40 Euro
Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40


..........to name a few

 

[mcseforsale]

This is even more confusing. It appears that NO 10w-40 or -50 oils will meet ILSAC GF-5 and only 30 weight will. So, my engine, designed around GF-3 will actually be better lubricated using a GF-5 with a lower weight (30 as opposed to 40).

It's interesting since this type of information begins to show the elimination of the ubiquitous "10W-XX" naming convention that hasn't really meant anything since I was a kid..

Here's yet another tidbit..from VWs site:
http://owners.vw.com/vww/vw_service/why/oil.html

And the..as of March 2011...oil list for US.
http://owners.vw.com/media/docs/Approved_Oil_List.pdf

So, some 5W-30s in there..

HMM.

AJ
Originally Posted By: cmf
Originally Posted By: mcseforsale
So, would Mobile1 0w-30 technically MEET OR EXCEED Ilsac GF-3 by because it's GF-5? Are these standards dumulative?


The standards are tougher than the previous and provide at least the same level of performance as previous in each aspect (wear/cleanliness/etc).

In short, a GF-5 oil will meet or exceed all standards set by GF-4, GF-3, etc.

In case you don't believe me: http://www.canadianoil.se/Bulletiner/nya_motoroljespecifikationer_2011.pdf

"ILSAC GF-5 is the latest version of this industry general specification, and replaces the previous specification, ILSAC GF-4, which was introduced in 2004.

ILSAC GF-5 is fully backwards compatible with all previous ILSAC GF standards."

 

[mcseforsale]

TO add even more confusion...Mobil 1 0w-40 does NOT specify any ILSAC specs, only API SN...where ILSAC GF-5 requires API SN, API SN makes no mention of ILSAC specs, but says its VW 502.00 rated.

Hmm..
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_0W-40.aspx#

The Mobil 1 10w-30 DOES meet ILSAC GF-5, meaning it also meets API SN, so technically, it's a better oil for my VW V6 than 0W-40 by reading the specs...

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_5W-30.aspx#

Interesting...yet very confusing. I'll probably just get whatever's on sale anyway

AJ

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: mcseforsale
Actually, my manual specifies either dino or synth.

You're not going to find a 5w-40 dino.

Aside from that, the recommendations in your owners manual are really strange, but again, it's not the first time for VW that things got "lost in translation". The VW 503.01/505.01 specs are all about reducing sludge, piston deposits, and oxidative thickening. ILSAC GF-3 (ILSAC in general) on the other hand cares little about these qualities and instead focuses mainly on improving fuel economy. Somewhat diametrically different and mutually exclusive characteristics, if you ask me.

If it was my car, I'd find any VW 502.00 Xw-40 oil that's on sale (M1 0w-40 comes to mind) and run it 10K miles. With the amount of driving you're doing, I'm assuming most of it is easy hwy miles, so this shouldn't be difficult to achieve. Your V6 engine isn't particularly tough on oil either, if I remember correctly, unless it's the VR6...

 

[mcseforsale]

My driving is literally over the river and through the woods stop and go. I drive 26 miles one way to work...usually speed-limit in-town type driving. I generally don't exceed 3500rpm since a.)I can't and b.) peak torque on my car is right around there.

The 5w-40 thing doesn't go unnoticed. It's a synthetic weight for sure. I'm just wondering since this recommendo was done in '02-'03 if it has changed since a lot of the current oil recommended from VW is 5w30, as well, most of the new standards are based around non 40 weight oils. The articles on this site further reinforce that, too.

I'm also wondering if the "higher mileage" oils would be beneficial in my car. The bottom end of the motor (rods, mains...basically the short block) has 172K on it, while the heads and everything on top of the motor are brand new (bought the car with a detonated timing belt).

I'm just not sure since my last dealing with synths were in the early 90s. At the time, most recommendations were to keep synth away from anything over 100K miles on it for fear that the synth would cause the seals to shrink and leak...

AJ

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

You're not going to find a 5w-40 dino.

Aside from that, the recommendations in your owners manual are really strange, but again, it's not the first time for VW that things got "lost in translation". The VW 503.01/505.01 specs are all about reducing sludge, piston deposits, and oxidative thickening. ILSAC GF-3 (ILSAC in general) on the other hand cares little about these qualities and instead focuses mainly on improving fuel economy. Somewhat diametrically different and mutually exclusive characteristics, if you ask me.

If it was my car, I'd find any VW 502.00 Xw-40 oil that's on sale (M1 0w-40 comes to mind) and run it 10K miles. With the amount of driving you're doing, I'm assuming most of it is easy hwy miles, so this shouldn't be difficult to achieve. Your V6 engine isn't particularly tough on oil either, if I remember correctly, unless it's the VR6...

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: mcseforsale
I'm also wondering if the "higher mileage" oils would be beneficial in my car.

An HM oil meeting ACEA A3 spec (for extended drains) would probably work well, too. Something like M1 HM 10w-30 or 10w-40.

 

[Finklejag]

Your way out of warranty. I wouldn't worry about using an oil that meets VW specs. For Hotlanta. I would choose Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 or Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-40. I have the Mobil 1 HM 10W-40 in my girlfriends Jetta right now. The Mobil 1 HM 10W-40 has a pour point of -33. You will never see anything near that in Atlanta.

 

[robertcope]

I do not understand why you don't just put M1 0W-40 in there and be happy.

robert