Bad sludge - chunks of gel in last oil change

[chillNed]

I bought a 2003 S10 4.3L with 92-94K in Dec, and noticed lifter clatter at startup: warm and cold.

Took it to dealer who told me lifters were bad, and that truck probably had never had oil changed and had very bad sludge buildup.

So I had them change oil to synthetic, and changed the oil after about a month of 7-10 mile work and back commutes. During change ran an engine flush through and put in cheap dino oil (don't like leaving engine flush in oil cooler with good oil going in).

After a week, changed to Valvoline SynPower 0W-20. Also, started having lifter clatter with new lifters...

Ran the Valvoline for about 3k (lifter clatter stopped), then changed oil for move from FL to WA - chunks of congealed oil came out.

During the move (truck loaded and pulling 4x8' trailer, so getting a decent workout) oil pressure dropped from a healthy 30-40 psi to 18 psi at 2200 RPM freeway speeds.

At first I thought it might be OK, but oil pressure drops to 0 psi at idle - no lifter clatter so oil is getting to the topside, but no oil psi is creepy.

Truck also developed an oil leak an lost 1.5 quarts over the duration of the trip (I added cheap 5W-30 (recommended viscosity) dino oil). It's either rear main seal, oil cooler, cam plate, or balance shaft. (have to get under to further diag)

So, my question is: Where to go from here with cleaning sludge out?

I was thinking of adding a quart of ATF for a quick trip to the hand car wash (to degrease undercarriage...) then changing oil again.

Truck runs great (aside from various, umm, "ticks" from poor maintenance), and pulled great in overdrive (3.08s in a limited slip diff) over northern rockies in S. Dakota through WA.

Any advice??

Thanks!

 

[tig1]

A friend had this problem in a 85 Mustang that was using dino but with very long OCIs. 10K to 12K and was driving lots of miles for his work. When the engine had 130K he started noticing oil psi slowly dropping on a trip out east. He finnaly had to pull over on an Interstate and have the car towed to a garage. The mech pulled the valve covers and they were full of sludge so he also dropped the oil pan and it was also full of sludge and blocking the oil pick up. They cleaned the sludge out and after he called me, decided on M1 5-30. After another 200K the engine was still clean and ran fine. He stores the car today as his toy project and hopes someday to restore the entire car.

 

[cmf]

I've read a few threads of people killing cars by running junk like ATF through the crankcase. It gets the sludge off the walls where it's doing nothing and puts it in the oil passageways where it's starving your engine.

My suggestion is:
1) Take off the valve cover and clean as much as you can up there.
2) Drop the oil pan and clean as much as you can down there.
3) Run 3k OCI on dino until it's coming out normal

 

[EricF]

sounds like an AutoRX or MMO treatment's in order.

 

[tinmanSC]

Sure sounds like you're gonna have to drop the pan to clean off the pick up screen. While you're down there, clean everything you possibly can. Valve cover/top end cleaning wouldn't be bad either. You gotta get that sludge out of there and restore oil flow. MMO won't do any good if you don't have oil flow.

 

[Ken2]

ATF has no detergents (because transmissions don't get dirty from blowby like engines do). Don't use it for that reason, plus it doesn't lubricate well enough for an engine.

The oil additives sub-forum has lots of info about cleaning out serious sludge. If there is so much sludge that the oil pickup screen is clogged, you gott'a get in there and clean it out.

CMF has the best ideas, plus use Marvel Mystery Oil or Kreen (from Kano Labs of Kroil fame).

 

[Travis99LS1]

Are you losing any coolant? Keep a very very close eye on your coolant. My father has an 02 s10 with the zr2 package and I changed the oil on it and same thing you described..it was like gel coming out. Intake gaskets took a dump and was letting coolant leak into the oil. The oil never looked milky...it just looked like very dirty sludged up oil. There was also quite a bit of metal on the magnetic drain plug..I'm pretty sure it took quite a bit of life from rod/main bearings. The oil pressure is also pretty low...below 20 psi at idle which is a good sign of excessive bearing clearances...the 4.3s are notorious for this. Just something to keep a lookout for.

 

[chillNed]

Thanks all for the input!

...not what I wanted to hear (pretty much have to pull the engine to drop the oil pan (grrr)).

Scrapping ATF idea, and will look for MMO or other product.

Good thing is that pulling the pan and valve covers'll prolly result in finding the leak. (yay. The silver lining...)

 

[chillNed]

It had a mystery coolant leak (the dealer couldn't find it, but the truck'd go through a gallon in two weeks...). Dealer did have to pull the intake to swap out the lifters, though. It didn't affect the coolant leak at all.

A good mechanic left it under pressure for a while and it was the water pump seal.

Haven't lost any coolant since. But, yeah, I've read about the s10 intake gaskets sucking wind. I also checked the plugs, and they all looked good (except the one with the melted down electrode - but it still had the good light brown color). So I don't think there's a cracked head/blown head gasket.

The drain plug hasn't had any metal/might not be magnetic. I'll check while changing oil.

Thanks for the tips, and I'll keep a watch on the coolant!

 

[wiswind]

You might try AutoRX....follow the instructions posted on their website (IMPORTANT).
I would not go for any "solvent" type of fast solution as you run the risk of clogging the oil pump intake screen.

I would NOT use ATF....better to use JUST oil......maybe a High Mileage (HM) oil which should have more detergents in the additive package.

The oil pump intake screen is the major plus in removing the oil pan.
Too bad it is such a job to do it.....but that would be my leading concern for low oil pressure.

If wondering about coolant in the oil, I would recommend you have a used oil analysis done.
I have used Blackstone Labs and gotten fast response from them.
They will email your results to you and also call you if they find something major.
Visit their website for instructions and a free sample / shipping kit.
That will put any coolant in oil questions to bed.

For a oil filter....you might think of the Fram XG (extended guard), around $10 at Walmart, or the Bosch Distance Plus filter.
These filters have a high dirt holding capacity, although I would NOT go any extended oil change interval with this vehicle at this time......3K miles would be very extended interval with all the junk you are trying to clean out.

 

[gathermewool]

I'd follow CMF's procedure. If not, keep with the shorter intervals and hope for the best. You've said it's already gotten better, so why risk your motor on a quick-fix solution? I don't consider MMO as a quick-fix type of additive, but I'm still more a proponent of more-frequent changes using nothing but oil than any type of additive.

Good luck, brother.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Did the pressure come back or is it still 0 at idle?

 

[johnsmellsalot]

The reason you heard the "chattering" was because the rocker arms weren't reciving the proper lubrication with 0W-20. The lower viscosity oil wasn't thick enough to "climb" up your engine.

The reason your oil pressure droped was because 0W-20 doesn't have the same resistance as 5W-30. Oil pumps don't create pressure. They just move volume.

Use the recommended grade of oil and nothing else.

I hear Auto-RX is good for clearing out sludge, but I've never used it. (I've never needed to use it.)

 

[Ken2]

Quote:
The reason you heard the "chattering" was because the rocker arms weren't reciving (sic) the proper lubrication with 0W-20. The lower viscosity oil wasn't thick enough to "climb" up your engine.

The reason your oil pressure droped (sic) was because 0W-20 doesn't have the same resistance as 5W-30. Oil pumps don't create pressure. They just move volume.
This is just nuts. Oil doesn't climb. Oil pumps are positive displacement pumps with pressure control valves. They certainly do create pressure. About moving fluids...they only move from a region of higher pressure to a region of lower pressure. Pressure makes fluids move.

True, 0W-20 creates less resistance to flow than 5W-30, so more will get to the upper parts of the engine. Perhaps true, 0W-20 might not provide the proper lubrication.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: johnsmellsalot
The reason you heard the "chattering" was because the rocker arms weren't reciving the proper lubrication with 0W-20. The lower viscosity oil wasn't thick enough to "climb" up your engine.

The reason your oil pressure droped was because 0W-20 doesn't have the same resistance as 5W-30. Oil pumps don't create pressure. They just move volume.

Use the recommended grade of oil and nothing else.

I hear Auto-RX is good for clearing out sludge, but I've never used it. (I've never needed to use it.)


All kinds of misinformed...

 

[hattaresguy]

0w20 is to thin for a 4.3, run a 5w30 like GM recommends.

Sounds like your engine has some serious issues, doubt your going to find a fix in a bottle. I'd drop the pan and poke around.

On the plus side remain 4.3's are cheap.

 

[cronk]

+1 ... no 0w20 or 5w20 in a 4.3!
5w30 or 10w30 is the oil those engines were made to run on.
Get the correct oil and a new filter on before you do any more damage to that engine.

 

[JoeWGauss]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
0w20 is to thin for a 4.3, run a 5w30 like GM recommends.

Sounds like your engine has some serious issues, doubt your going to find a fix in a bottle. I'd drop the pan and poke around.



Yeah, I'll never understand why so many people here automatically pitch the snake oil fixes. Most of the time they do nothing to solve the real problem and sometimes they creat MORE serious issues !

 

[Brons2]

Why was 0w20 installed in the first place? I'd use 10w30 in a 4.3.

 

[mgm13]

+1 on the Auto-RX people can say what they like but for me it did some engine cleaning and flat stopped an auto tranny shift problem. No Koolaid just truth. It has been know to fix seal leaks, no good on gaskets. Good luck.