Rotella T6, Mobil 1 TDT or AMSoil Series 3000 HDEO

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Dumb question.

I am an affirmed AMSoil Series 3000 HDEO user however here in Oz the prices for AMSoil are outrageous (around A$80 per US Gallon).

My current vehicles can run either 5W30 or 5W40 and only require annual oil changes however I change out my oil and filters every 6 months.

I have found an Aussie supplier for Rotella and TDT and I am strongly considering moving to Rotella T6 or Mobil 1 TDT both 5W40 at around A$40 per US gallon.

As near as I can see from reviewing UOA's etc on the Forum, these seem to be pretty equal.

Anything I need to know about the Rotella or TDT as these aren't normally sold in Oz.
 
Hi,
LexusAussie - TDT? - I presume you mean Delvac 1 5W-40??
I have never seen it sold for less than $10 per litre in OZ - and I purchased hundreds of litres of it over many many years!

You are on to a bargain price for a great and robust product.................
 
Turbo Diesel Truck and Delvac 1 5w40 are different products in the US. TDT is meant primarily for light-duty diesel-engine pickup trucks and mixed-fleet use. It is rated CJ4/SM and ACEA E7. Delvac 1 is meant primarily for heavy-duty trucking and has a whole raft of builder approvals. It is rated CI4+/SL and ACEA E7/E5/E4/E3.

They have viscosities within a couple percent of each other. Delvac 1 has higher ash, TBN, and Flash Point.

I am running TDT in my Cummins Dodge, and it seems to have higher oil consumption than the conventional oil it replaced. For this reason, I am planning to switch to either RT6 or Schaeffers Supreme 9000 on the next oil change.

In a head-to-head comparison between TDT and RT6, I would pick RT6. Over here, it is available in more places, and most of the time is lower cost. RT6 has higher HTHS, Flash Point, and Phosphorous content than TDT.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
LexusAussie - TDT? - I presume you mean Delvac 1 5W-40??
I have never seen it sold for less than $10 per litre in OZ - and I purchased hundreds of litres of it over many many years!

You are on to a bargain price for a great and robust product.................


The Retailer is selling TDT not Delvac 1. They import US products like Formula Shell, Rotella, TDT, Redline etc.
 
I personally would stay away from Mobil 1 5W-40 TDT. It doesn't seem to have a very good CJ-4 additive package. In my opinion it's one of Mobil's questionable oils.

Rotella T6 5W-40 would be an excellent choice for virtually any diesel application and even for gasoline or motorcycle engines. It's very cheap in US.

I don't know much about Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40. It's not available for retail in US.

For the Aussie climate, I would think that the Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 CJ-4 would be the best choice if it's available there and it should also be sold at a bargain price.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I personally would stay away from Mobil 1 5W-40 TDT. It doesn't seem to have a very good CJ-4 additive package. In my opinion it's one of Mobil's questionable oils.

I strongly disagree. Mobil 1 TDT has proven itself to be an excellent oil for nearly any diesel engine, especially the cam-grinding VW Pumpe Düse TDI engines.

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I don't know much about Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40. It's not available for retail in US.


Mobil disagrees, per their USA site: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English-LCW/hea...1-esp-5w40.aspx

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
For the Aussie climate, I would think that the Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 CJ-4 would be the best choice if it's available there

What about the Aussie climate makes a 15w40 CJ-4 (mineral) oil superior over a 5w40 CJ-4 (synthetic) oil?

IMO none of the three oils you've listed are 'bad' and I would choose based on price & availability. You may also look at getting Schaeffer 9000, which I'm running quite nicely in both TDIs. I did stumble upon Mobil 1 TDT for cheap ($4/quart!) due to a pricing error at my local parts store so I may be running that for the next few years.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I personally would stay away from Mobil 1 5W-40 TDT. It doesn't seem to have a very good CJ-4 additive package. In my opinion it's one of Mobil's questionable oils.

Rotella T6 5W-40 would be an excellent choice for virtually any diesel application and even for gasoline or motorcycle engines. It's very cheap in US.

I don't know much about Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40. It's not available for retail in US.

For the Aussie climate, I would think that the Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 CJ-4 would be the best choice if it's available there and it should also be sold at a bargain price.



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Originally Posted By: scurvy
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I personally would stay away from Mobil 1 5W-40 TDT. It doesn't seem to have a very good CJ-4 additive package. In my opinion it's one of Mobil's questionable oils.

I strongly disagree. Mobil 1 TDT has proven itself to be an excellent oil for nearly any diesel engine, especially the cam-grinding VW Pumpe Düse TDI engines.

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I don't know much about Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40. It's not available for retail in US.


Mobil disagrees, per their USA site: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English-LCW/hea...1-esp-5w40.aspx

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
For the Aussie climate, I would think that the Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 CJ-4 would be the best choice if it's available there

What about the Aussie climate makes a 15w40 CJ-4 (mineral) oil superior over a 5w40 CJ-4 (synthetic) oil?

IMO none of the three oils you've listed are 'bad' and I would choose based on price & availability. You may also look at getting Schaeffer 9000, which I'm running quite nicely in both TDIs. I did stumble upon Mobil 1 TDT for cheap ($4/quart!) due to a pricing error at my local parts store so I may be running that for the next few years.

Mobil 1 TDT has virtually no moly and very little boron. Mobil Delvac 1300 Super for example has the latest patented trinuclear-moly technology. Shell Rotella also has similar levels of moly but I don't know what kind -- likely trinuclear though as Infineum additive co. is co-owned by Mobil and Shell.

TDT is more intended toward light-truck applications and therefore doesn't seem to have the best CJ-4 additive package. It's probably a good oil but Rotella T6 is a better and cheaper choice.

For flat tappets, having moly in addition to ZDDP helps, as moly is an extreme-pressure additive that prevents scuffing. So, for those applications, Rotella or Delvac are better than TDT.

You really don't need synthetic 5W-40 in warm climates if you have access to quality 15W-40 like Delvac 1300 Super or Rotella (with Delvac 1300 Super being superior). More the spread in xW-y, more the oil will shear, even the synthetics. Although, shear of 5W-40 (starting HTHS viscosity ~ 3.8) is not a big concern for xW-30 gasoline applications, since it won't shear much below the non-CJ-4 xW-30 levels (starting HTHS viscosity ~ 3.1). (It could be a concern for heavy-duty diesel applications, which require a minimum HTHS viscosity of 3.5 or so.) The only time you would really benefit from synthetic oil in warm temperatures would be if you're running long OCIs or perhaps in gasoline turbo engines.

Regarding availability of Delvac 1, it's not available in US except by truck-oil distributors and a couple of online retailers, who sell it for very high prices. You can't just go to a store and get it.
 
Hi,
LexusAussie - Thanks, a good find! Mobil is simply "retiring" from the retail market - one way or another........

Gokhan - With all due respect many people on here have extensive user experience with the lubricants and viscosities you seemingly "downgrade"! Have you???
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
LexusAussie - Thanks, a good find! Mobil is simply "retiring" from the retail market - one way or another........

Gokhan - With all due respect many people on here have extensive user experience with the lubricants and viscosities you seemingly "downgrade"! Have you???

I am not sure why you say I downgrade.

I only stated that Rotella T6 has a better CJ-4 additive package (moly, boron, tailored toward heavy-duty use) than TDT (no moly, little boron, tailored toward light trucks) in my opinion. Delvac 1 probably has a better additive package than TDT but unfortunately it's not available for retail.

Regarding 5W-40, all I said was that it's more useful for cold weather and you wouldn't see much benefit over 15W-40 in warm weather, and its lower HTHS viscosity compounded with shearing issues might be a problem in heavy-duty truck applications, although not so much in light-duty or gas applications. Many heavy-duty-truck fleets are still afraid of switching to 5W-40 from 15W-40.

Engines tolerate a wide range of viscosities, and within a given family of motor oil, there is not much quality difference between major brands. It all comes down to marginal improvements -- moly or no moly, little shear or more shear, OCI length, etc.

So, you would be just fine with virtually any 5W-40 or 15W-40 out there. I am not downgrading anything for the record but only comparing one against the other and pointing out possible advantages and disadvatages. You could just pick up a jug of Super Tech 15W-40 from Wal-Mart and chances are that your UOA possibly won't tell a difference from Rotella T6 in wear metals.
wink.gif


But if the original poster is looking for a synthetic 5W-40 and trying to choose between Rotella T6 and Mobil 1 TDT, I would recommend the Rotella T6. It fares a little better than the pricier Mobil 1 TDT (not Mobil Delvac 1) due to its better additive package in my opinion but others might feel free to disagree. If Delvac 1 is also available there, it would be a different story.
 
Hi,
Gokhan - I for one have covered many millions of Kms on Delvac 1 5W-40 over many years - from 1997! Results from UOAs and tear-down-measure up inspections and other data confirm it as an excellent choice as "Approved" in heavy high speed diesel engines! My OCIs averaged 90kkms (56k miles). The 5W-40 viscosity offers many advantages in thye correct application. My IS Class 8 trucks operated in ambients from -15C to 44C

My engines were various but mainly Detroit Diesel Series 60s DDEC 2, 3, 4 at 425 to 500hp
 
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Gokhan - I for one have covered many millions of Kms on Delvac 1 5W-40 over many years - from 1997! Results from UOAs and tear-down-measure up inspections and other data confirm it as an excellent choice as "Approved" in heavy high speed diesel engines! My OCIs averaged 90kkms (56k miles). The 5W-40 viscosity offers many advantages in thye correct application. My IS Class 8 trucks operated in ambients from -15C to 44C

My engines were various but mainly Detroit Diesel Series 60s DDEC 2, 3, 4 at 425 to 500hp

Hi Doug,

I've been referring to Mobil 1 Turbo-Diesel Truck, not Mobil Delvac 1 ESP. I do agree that Mobil Delvac 1 ESP is possibly the best 5W-40 out there but it's not available for retail in US. Mobil 1 Turbo-Diesel Truck is a different formula tailored more toward light-duty trucks. Given the choice between Rotella T6 and Mobil 1 TDT, I would go with Rotella T6, but given the choice between Delvac 1 and Rotella T6, I would probably go with Delvac 1.

It's great that your engines fared well with 5W-40. Its HTHS viscosity (~ 3.8) is a little smaller than that of 15W-40 (~ 4.3), but as long as it doesn't shear much, it would provide the same degree of protection and even better protection with cold starts and with longer OCIs.
 
D1 ESP 5w40 is available at many truckstops and farm type (or diesel focused) stores. Some parts of the US don't have many diesels.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Gokhan - I for one have covered many millions of Kms on Delvac 1 5W-40 over many years - from 1997! Results from UOAs and tear-down-measure up inspections and other data confirm it as an excellent choice as "Approved" in heavy high speed diesel engines! My OCIs averaged 90kkms (56k miles). The 5W-40 viscosity offers many advantages in thye correct application. My IS Class 8 trucks operated in ambients from -15C to 44C

My engines were various but mainly Detroit Diesel Series 60s DDEC 2, 3, 4 at 425 to 500hp

Hi Doug,

I've been referring to Mobil 1 Turbo-Diesel Truck, not Mobil Delvac 1 ESP. I do agree that Mobil Delvac 1 ESP is possibly the best 5W-40 out there but it's not available for retail in US. Mobil 1 Turbo-Diesel Truck is a different formula tailored more toward light-duty trucks. Given the choice between Rotella T6 and Mobil 1 TDT, I would go with Rotella T6, but given the choice between Delvac 1 and Rotella T6, I would probably go with Delvac 1.

It's great that your engines fared well with 5W-40. Its HTHS viscosity (~ 3.8) is a little smaller than that of 15W-40 (~ 4.3), but as long as it doesn't shear much, it would provide the same degree of protection and even better protection with cold starts and with longer OCIs.


Doug is talking about regular Delvac 1, it would have been the CI-4+ version when he ran it.

M1 TDT 5w40 when it was CI-4+ was the exact same lubricant as Delvac 1 5w40.

Now of course, they are different oils. I am still able to get "regular" (read: non ESP) Delvac 1 up here.....
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Gokhan - I for one have covered many millions of Kms on Delvac 1 5W-40 over many years - from 1997! Results from UOAs and tear-down-measure up inspections and other data confirm it as an excellent choice as "Approved" in heavy high speed diesel engines! My OCIs averaged 90kkms (56k miles). The 5W-40 viscosity offers many advantages in thye correct application. My IS Class 8 trucks operated in ambients from -15C to 44C

My engines were various but mainly Detroit Diesel Series 60s DDEC 2, 3, 4 at 425 to 500hp

Hi Doug,

I've been referring to Mobil 1 Turbo-Diesel Truck, not Mobil Delvac 1 ESP. I do agree that Mobil Delvac 1 ESP is possibly the best 5W-40 out there but it's not available for retail in US. Mobil 1 Turbo-Diesel Truck is a different formula tailored more toward light-duty trucks. Given the choice between Rotella T6 and Mobil 1 TDT, I would go with Rotella T6, but given the choice between Delvac 1 and Rotella T6, I would probably go with Delvac 1.

It's great that your engines fared well with 5W-40. Its HTHS viscosity (~ 3.8) is a little smaller than that of 15W-40 (~ 4.3), but as long as it doesn't shear much, it would provide the same degree of protection and even better protection with cold starts and with longer OCIs.


Doug is talking about regular Delvac 1, it would have been the CI-4+ version when he ran it.

M1 TDT 5w40 when it was CI-4+ was the exact same lubricant as Delvac 1 5w40.

Now of course, they are different oils. I am still able to get "regular" (read: non ESP) Delvac 1 up here.....

Thanks. According to one UOA I just saw, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40 has no moly and is also quite low in ZDDP (800 ppm P). Mobil 1 TDT 5W-40 has no moly even though it has good amount of ZDDP (1100 ppm P). Therefore, for my flat-tappet application, I will stick with Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 (~ 1000 ppm P and ~ 50 ppm trinuclear moly), which is an excellent , shear-resistant 15W-40 with top wear-protection performance.

If I had to use 5W-40 (cold climate), I would choose Rotella T6 5W-40 for my application, another excellent oil with great wear protection and decent amount of ZDDP (~ 900 ppm P) and moly (~ 60 ppm).
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
Gokhan - I for one have covered many millions of Kms on Delvac 1 5W-40 over many years - from 1997! Results from UOAs and tear-down-measure up inspections and other data confirm it as an excellent choice as "Approved" in heavy high speed diesel engines! My OCIs averaged 90kkms (56k miles). The 5W-40 viscosity offers many advantages in thye correct application. My IS Class 8 trucks operated in ambients from -15C to 44C

My engines were various but mainly Detroit Diesel Series 60s DDEC 2, 3, 4 at 425 to 500hp

Hi Doug,

I've been referring to Mobil 1 Turbo-Diesel Truck, not Mobil Delvac 1 ESP. I do agree that Mobil Delvac 1 ESP is possibly the best 5W-40 out there but it's not available for retail in US. Mobil 1 Turbo-Diesel Truck is a different formula tailored more toward light-duty trucks. Given the choice between Rotella T6 and Mobil 1 TDT, I would go with Rotella T6, but given the choice between Delvac 1 and Rotella T6, I would probably go with Delvac 1.

It's great that your engines fared well with 5W-40. Its HTHS viscosity (~ 3.8) is a little smaller than that of 15W-40 (~ 4.3), but as long as it doesn't shear much, it would provide the same degree of protection and even better protection with cold starts and with longer OCIs.


Doug is talking about regular Delvac 1, it would have been the CI-4+ version when he ran it.

M1 TDT 5w40 when it was CI-4+ was the exact same lubricant as Delvac 1 5w40.

Now of course, they are different oils. I am still able to get "regular" (read: non ESP) Delvac 1 up here.....

Thanks. According to one UOA I just saw, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40 has no moly and is also quite low in ZDDP (800 ppm P). Mobil 1 TDT 5W-40 has no moly even though it has good amount of ZDDP (1100 ppm P). Therefore, for my flat-tappet application, I will stick with Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 (~ 1000 ppm P and ~ 50 ppm trinuclear moly), which is an excellent , shear-resistant 15W-40 with top wear-protection performance.

If I had to use 5W-40 (cold climate), I would choose Rotella T6 5W-40 for my application, another excellent oil with great wear protection and decent amount of ZDDP (~ 900 ppm P) and moly (~ 60 ppm).


So becasue "YOUR" application, which is a 30 year old car, gives you reason to politic against an oil that doesn't meet your needs?
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Thanks. According to one UOA I just saw, Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5W-40 has no moly and is also quite low in ZDDP (800 ppm P). Mobil 1 TDT 5W-40 has no moly even though it has good amount of ZDDP (1100 ppm P). Therefore, for my flat-tappet application, I will stick with Mobil Delvac 1300 Super 15W-40 (~ 1000 ppm P and ~ 50 ppm trinuclear moly), which is an excellent , shear-resistant 15W-40 with top wear-protection performance.

If I had to use 5W-40 (cold climate), I would choose Rotella T6 5W-40 for my application, another excellent oil with great wear protection and decent amount of ZDDP (~ 900 ppm P) and moly (~ 60 ppm).


Do you have a reference for the 900ppm P content of RT6?

I have been going by this VOA, which shows 1078ppm: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1939470#Post1939470

(Since it is a Blackstone analysis, I am assuming that their reading is 10-15% low, which would put the P content of RT6 at ~1200ppm.

Similarly, here is a VOA of TDT, which shows 934ppm P. Because Mobil's PDS specifies 1100ppm, and Blackstone is coming up 15% short on P, I tend to believe Mobil instead of Blackstone's analysis.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1939477#Post1939477
 
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