What oil would you recomend for 4 cycle outboards in the 60 hp to 115 hp range? I would like to use 5-40 HDMO synthetic or 15-40 HDMO dino.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Oil in medium size 4 cycle outboards?
- Thread starter callbay
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: car54
any brand would work better and cost less than marine specific oils, IMO.
Marine specific oils have special additives to help deal with corrosion and fuel dillution not found in automotive oils. How would that make those non marine oils better?
any brand would work better and cost less than marine specific oils, IMO.
Marine specific oils have special additives to help deal with corrosion and fuel dillution not found in automotive oils. How would that make those non marine oils better?
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: callbay
What oil would you recomend for 4 cycle outboards in the 60 hp to 115 hp range? I would like to use 5-40 HDMO synthetic or 15-40 HDMO dino.
I would recommend you run the weight the outboard mfg spec'd the engine for in a marine specific oil that preferably is FC-W rated. Amsoil offers 30 and 40 weight 4-stroke specific oils that are FC-W rated and are a good choice if you want a synthetic. Otherwise run a conventional marine FC-W rated oil from the brand you like.
What oil would you recomend for 4 cycle outboards in the 60 hp to 115 hp range? I would like to use 5-40 HDMO synthetic or 15-40 HDMO dino.
I would recommend you run the weight the outboard mfg spec'd the engine for in a marine specific oil that preferably is FC-W rated. Amsoil offers 30 and 40 weight 4-stroke specific oils that are FC-W rated and are a good choice if you want a synthetic. Otherwise run a conventional marine FC-W rated oil from the brand you like.
If you sign up as a preferred customer, Amsoil is a good deal at roughly $7.50/quart. OEM conventional oils are $1-$2 more.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Originally Posted By: car54
any brand would work better and cost less than marine specific oils, IMO.
Marine specific oils have special additives to help deal with corrosion and fuel dillution not found in automotive oils. How would that make those non marine oils better?
I have been to many commercial marine operations and they all use HDEO in all their high speed diesel and gas engines. Most of their engines cost more than our boats.
Originally Posted By: car54
any brand would work better and cost less than marine specific oils, IMO.
Marine specific oils have special additives to help deal with corrosion and fuel dillution not found in automotive oils. How would that make those non marine oils better?
I have been to many commercial marine operations and they all use HDEO in all their high speed diesel and gas engines. Most of their engines cost more than our boats.
If it is a Mercury I feel your pain for $10/quart oil. Pay for the expensive oil. Your outboard will go from idle to instant wide open where it will have to give everything for 20-30 minutes. Most inboards and commercial units are not pushed like that. They may come close in rpm not in max output. If you think the oil is high wait til you buy parts and labor. I am 100% with the above post in running the recommended viscosity in FC-W oil.
I can testify that fuel dilution can be a real problem in outboards. I had a stuck open thermostat in my F90 Yamaha, and when I checked the dipstick I found that the oil level was up by more than a quart. The Yamaha mechanic said it happens when the outboards runs too cold.
I was using Yamalube at the time. What I would like to know is how exactly the FC-W oil protects better in those circumstances. Diluted oil is diluted oil.
I was using Yamalube at the time. What I would like to know is how exactly the FC-W oil protects better in those circumstances. Diluted oil is diluted oil.
I've run Rotella Dino 15W-40 for several seasons in my Yamaha F75. Seems to be working well.
Originally Posted By: sr17
I was using Yamalube at the time. What I would like to know is how exactly the FC-W oil protects better in those circumstances. Diluted oil is diluted oil.
Fuel dillution is a common issue with outboards. Even those in top mechanical condition. It isn't in automobile engines. Yes it happens in gas and diesel engines used in auto's but that is a sign something is wrong. It happens in outboards under many circumstances and not always when something is wrong.
If you run your OB during the colder months( waterfowl hunting in the winter or late fall /early spring fishing )for example it is a big issue as the engine takes forever to warm up fully if it ever does. 4-strokes allow you to start and then go without sitting and warming them up the way you used to have to do with 2-strokes( or they stalled ). Cold engines being run at WOT with a lot of fuel being dumped in because it is not fully warmed up. This can lead to fuel getting into the oil. If your T-Stat fails in the winetr it makes it even worse( been there ).
I hunt waterfowl from Oct - mid Feb each year and I have to keep an eye on my 4-stroke's oil due to fuel dillution( and condensation )because I run it so much in freezing water( saltwater so it actually gets below 32 degrees without freezing ). It is not uncommon for me to have to do an OC mid season( late Dec +/- )due to fuel and/or moisture in the oil.
The outboard specific oils are designed with these conditions in mind and they are formulated to combat it. It gives me peace of mind if nothing else using a marine specific oil.
I was using Yamalube at the time. What I would like to know is how exactly the FC-W oil protects better in those circumstances. Diluted oil is diluted oil.
Fuel dillution is a common issue with outboards. Even those in top mechanical condition. It isn't in automobile engines. Yes it happens in gas and diesel engines used in auto's but that is a sign something is wrong. It happens in outboards under many circumstances and not always when something is wrong.
If you run your OB during the colder months( waterfowl hunting in the winter or late fall /early spring fishing )for example it is a big issue as the engine takes forever to warm up fully if it ever does. 4-strokes allow you to start and then go without sitting and warming them up the way you used to have to do with 2-strokes( or they stalled ). Cold engines being run at WOT with a lot of fuel being dumped in because it is not fully warmed up. This can lead to fuel getting into the oil. If your T-Stat fails in the winetr it makes it even worse( been there ).
I hunt waterfowl from Oct - mid Feb each year and I have to keep an eye on my 4-stroke's oil due to fuel dillution( and condensation )because I run it so much in freezing water( saltwater so it actually gets below 32 degrees without freezing ). It is not uncommon for me to have to do an OC mid season( late Dec +/- )due to fuel and/or moisture in the oil.
The outboard specific oils are designed with these conditions in mind and they are formulated to combat it. It gives me peace of mind if nothing else using a marine specific oil.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Fuel dillution is a common issue with outboards....The outboard specific oils are designed with these conditions in mind and they are formulated to combat it...
Fuel dilution does occur occasionally in four-stroke outboards, but is far from common. Unfortunately, there is no way that a motor oil can "combat" this condition. Marine-specific is a marketing ploy, pure and simple and many of them are simply re-labeled common motor oils. The only way to "combat" the fuel dilution problem is to operate your outboard properly and change the oil frequently.
Fuel dillution is a common issue with outboards....The outboard specific oils are designed with these conditions in mind and they are formulated to combat it...
Fuel dilution does occur occasionally in four-stroke outboards, but is far from common. Unfortunately, there is no way that a motor oil can "combat" this condition. Marine-specific is a marketing ploy, pure and simple and many of them are simply re-labeled common motor oils. The only way to "combat" the fuel dilution problem is to operate your outboard properly and change the oil frequently.
Originally Posted By: Maximus1966
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Fuel dillution is a common issue with outboards....The outboard specific oils are designed with these conditions in mind and they are formulated to combat it...
Fuel dilution does occur occasionally in four-stroke outboards, but is far from common. Unfortunately, there is no way that a motor oil can "combat" this condition. Marine-specific is a marketing ploy, pure and simple and many of them are simply re-labeled common motor oils. The only way to "combat" the fuel dilution problem is to operate your outboard properly and change the oil frequently.
Maybe down in GA where it is warm during the time you run the OB it is not so common but up here in NH during the winter it is very common for the reasons I explained earlier. I operate my OB properly thanks. I am not sure exactly how marine oils combat fuel dillution( I assume betetr additives to deal with it )but they claim to so maybe I am being taken by the marketing folks? I do know they contain corrosion inhiibitors and anti foaming agents that regular oils do not have or at least the marine oils have them to a higher level.
From NMMA on the FC-W standard...
Quote:
Working with the NMMA, industry leaders in lubrication technology developed testing criteria for this marine four-stroke oil. These criteria include bench tests for viscosity, corrosion, filter plugging, foaming and aeration. In addition, the oil must successfully pass a 100-hour general performance engine test.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
Fuel dillution is a common issue with outboards....The outboard specific oils are designed with these conditions in mind and they are formulated to combat it...
Fuel dilution does occur occasionally in four-stroke outboards, but is far from common. Unfortunately, there is no way that a motor oil can "combat" this condition. Marine-specific is a marketing ploy, pure and simple and many of them are simply re-labeled common motor oils. The only way to "combat" the fuel dilution problem is to operate your outboard properly and change the oil frequently.
Maybe down in GA where it is warm during the time you run the OB it is not so common but up here in NH during the winter it is very common for the reasons I explained earlier. I operate my OB properly thanks. I am not sure exactly how marine oils combat fuel dillution( I assume betetr additives to deal with it )but they claim to so maybe I am being taken by the marketing folks? I do know they contain corrosion inhiibitors and anti foaming agents that regular oils do not have or at least the marine oils have them to a higher level.
From NMMA on the FC-W standard...
Quote:
Working with the NMMA, industry leaders in lubrication technology developed testing criteria for this marine four-stroke oil. These criteria include bench tests for viscosity, corrosion, filter plugging, foaming and aeration. In addition, the oil must successfully pass a 100-hour general performance engine test.
I certainly don't think you have been "taken." Someone has sold you oil that your are very happy with. Sounds like a good deal to me!
I still would very much like to know if the marine oil is really that much better.
The dock where I keep my boat is full of guide boats that are operated more than a thousand hours per season year in an year out. These are guys that own and operate their own boats, and they take good care of their engines.
So far I have found none that uses marine specific oil - some use Royal Purple and others use Schaeffer - quality synthetic oils that cost less than the dino Yamalube I am buying - makes me think.
The dock where I keep my boat is full of guide boats that are operated more than a thousand hours per season year in an year out. These are guys that own and operate their own boats, and they take good care of their engines.
So far I have found none that uses marine specific oil - some use Royal Purple and others use Schaeffer - quality synthetic oils that cost less than the dino Yamalube I am buying - makes me think.
I am using NAPA 15-40 universal fleet oil in my Yamaha f115 with no problem. It is a diesel rated oil, plenty of zinc, and combats fuel dulition. Cost is about 3.50 a qt on the high side. Have done an analisis at Blackstone at 50 hrs twice, just fine. I change at 50 hrs because that is a year for me. This engine lives at 5 to 5500 rpm 80% of the time.
Originally Posted By: sr17
I still would very much like to know if the marine oil is really that much better.
There is NOTHING special about FC-W rated oils. The "corrosion" test they have to pass is so simple and easy....any oily substance could pass the test required for FC-W approval....from cooking spray (Pam) to engine oil to ear wax.
And what can an engine oil to do combat fuel dilution? Nothing. Can an oil magically make fuel disappear? I don't care what kind of "additive" you have. The only thing that's gonna get rid of fuel in your oil is running it WOT for a long run.
My two brothers and I have a fleet of 6 boats. From a fully restored 1968 18' Starcarft to 36' Tiara. Outboards and inboards. We have about $250,000 wrapped up into boats. I take care of them all, which includes these 4-stroke outboards: 2006 Yamaha 115HP, 2010 Suzuki 225, and Mercury 250.
I would never put Yamalube or Mercruiser oil in any of these engines. NEVER. They all get the same oil: Rotella T6 5w40. We run our boats when it's below freezing for at least a month. Air temps are usually -10 to 20 degrees F for the last few weeks until Lake St. Clair finally freezes over. This is the oil we run in our 4-stroke outboards. The big block chevy's in the Tiara run on dino 15w40.
You gotta be uneducated or scared to run OEM oil in your outboards...those are the only two reasons I could think anyone would. You don't know any better....or you're afraid you're gonna screw something up if you don't run what the dealer told you to run.
I still would very much like to know if the marine oil is really that much better.
There is NOTHING special about FC-W rated oils. The "corrosion" test they have to pass is so simple and easy....any oily substance could pass the test required for FC-W approval....from cooking spray (Pam) to engine oil to ear wax.
And what can an engine oil to do combat fuel dilution? Nothing. Can an oil magically make fuel disappear? I don't care what kind of "additive" you have. The only thing that's gonna get rid of fuel in your oil is running it WOT for a long run.
My two brothers and I have a fleet of 6 boats. From a fully restored 1968 18' Starcarft to 36' Tiara. Outboards and inboards. We have about $250,000 wrapped up into boats. I take care of them all, which includes these 4-stroke outboards: 2006 Yamaha 115HP, 2010 Suzuki 225, and Mercury 250.
I would never put Yamalube or Mercruiser oil in any of these engines. NEVER. They all get the same oil: Rotella T6 5w40. We run our boats when it's below freezing for at least a month. Air temps are usually -10 to 20 degrees F for the last few weeks until Lake St. Clair finally freezes over. This is the oil we run in our 4-stroke outboards. The big block chevy's in the Tiara run on dino 15w40.
You gotta be uneducated or scared to run OEM oil in your outboards...those are the only two reasons I could think anyone would. You don't know any better....or you're afraid you're gonna screw something up if you don't run what the dealer told you to run.
Last edited:
You guys are missing the major points for FC-W rated oils.
Modern automotive oils rated at 30 weight or below are generally blended at the bottom of their viscosity range for fuel efficiency. So even a little fuel dilution will bring the oil below the recommended viscosity rating. To meet FC-W specs, the oil must be blended to a higher viscosity. This will buffer the effects of fuel dilution up to a point.
Automotive oils rated at 30 weight or less must conform to low limits for phosphate content in order to protect catalytic converters. This limits the amount of ZDDP additive that can be used. This is fine for cars, which have roller type tappets. However, all 4-stroke outboards uses sliding tappets, which require higher levels of ZDDP (or an equivalent anti-wear additive)for optimal protection. Every FC-W oil analysis I've seen has shown >1000 ppm phosphate, which indicates a strong dose of ZDDP.
Most any diesel rated oil and likely many xW-40 weight automotive oils would likely meet or exceed FC-W standards. Many People have had good results running diesel oils in 4-stroke outboards.
Modern automotive oils rated at 30 weight or below are generally blended at the bottom of their viscosity range for fuel efficiency. So even a little fuel dilution will bring the oil below the recommended viscosity rating. To meet FC-W specs, the oil must be blended to a higher viscosity. This will buffer the effects of fuel dilution up to a point.
Automotive oils rated at 30 weight or less must conform to low limits for phosphate content in order to protect catalytic converters. This limits the amount of ZDDP additive that can be used. This is fine for cars, which have roller type tappets. However, all 4-stroke outboards uses sliding tappets, which require higher levels of ZDDP (or an equivalent anti-wear additive)for optimal protection. Every FC-W oil analysis I've seen has shown >1000 ppm phosphate, which indicates a strong dose of ZDDP.
Most any diesel rated oil and likely many xW-40 weight automotive oils would likely meet or exceed FC-W standards. Many People have had good results running diesel oils in 4-stroke outboards.
Originally Posted By: Doc_Stressor
You guys are missing the major points for FC-W rated oils.
Modern automotive oils rated at 30 weight or below are generally blended at the bottom of their viscosity range for fuel efficiency. So even a little fuel dilution will bring the oil below the recommended viscosity rating. To meet FC-W specs, the oil must be blended to a higher viscosity. This will buffer the effects of fuel dilution up to a point.
Can you show us anything where the NMMA stipulates a higher viscosity for FC-W approval?
You guys are missing the major points for FC-W rated oils.
Modern automotive oils rated at 30 weight or below are generally blended at the bottom of their viscosity range for fuel efficiency. So even a little fuel dilution will bring the oil below the recommended viscosity rating. To meet FC-W specs, the oil must be blended to a higher viscosity. This will buffer the effects of fuel dilution up to a point.
Can you show us anything where the NMMA stipulates a higher viscosity for FC-W approval?
HTHS viscosity must be 3.3 at a minimum. Most automotive 30 weight oils are closer to 3.0. See page 21.
http://www.nmma.org/assets/cabinets/Cabinet456/FCW_Product_Approval_System.pdf
http://www.nmma.org/assets/cabinets/Cabinet456/FCW_Product_Approval_System.pdf
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
Similar threads
- Replies
- 52
- Views
- 5K
- Replies
- 5
- Views
- 1K
- Replies
- 10
- Views
- 2K