New EPA coal regs = $180 billion

[Tempest]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/08/idUS186421+08-Jun-2011+BW20110608

Quote:
If enacted, the regulations would lead to nationwide employment losses totaling 1.44 million job-years by 2020 and increase Americans’ average electricity bills by 11.5 percent. In some parts of the United States, rates would climb by almost 24 percent.

And:
Quote:
The analysis by NERA shows that these would be some of the most expensive EPA rules ever imposed on coal-fueled power plants—costing more than $180 billion, causing double-digit electricity rate increases in many states, and leading to substantial job losses nationwide. Many of these severe impacts would hit families living in states already facing serious economic challenges. Because of these impacts, EPA should make major changes to the proposed regulations before they are finalized.”

 

[JHZR2]

Dont know that I buy the job loss bit.

 

[IndyIan]

The total cost of pollution from coal power plants could top a half trillion dollars annually in the North East alone...
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/02/16/207534/life-cycle-study-coal-harvard-epstein-health/

Seems like the EPA coal regs will save alot of money!

 

[rshaw125]

The EPA is ripe for a very large budget cut.

 

[jaj]

Isn't it amazing that a study funded by a coal-fired power plant industry association reveals that new regulations are bad.

The study was supposed to be based on US Government source material - I expect that the EPA did this analysis as well and I wonder what their version says?

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
The total cost of pollution from coal power plants could top a half trillion dollars annually in the North East alone...
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/02/16/207534/life-cycle-study-coal-harvard-epstein-health/

Seems like the EPA coal regs will save alot of money!

Joe Romm from the Center for American Progress?? You won't find a more bias source if you tried.

Quote:
The Center for Health and the Global Environment at Harvard Medical School, the first such center at a medical school in the United States, was founded in 1996 to help promote a wider understanding of the human health consequences of global environmental change. By focusing on environmental change through the lens of human health, the Center is able to reach people in concrete, personal terms they can relate to and understand. The Center is an official Collaborating Center of the U.N. Environment Programme and works alongside many other organizations throughout the world.

http://chge.med.harvard.edu/about/
Yeah, they aren't biased in the least.
Quote:
climate contributions from combustion between $61.7 and $205.8 billion

I'm glad they could pin that down accurately!

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
The total cost of pollution from coal power plants could top a half trillion dollars annually in the North East alone...
http://thinkprogress.org/romm/2011/02/16/207534/life-cycle-study-coal-harvard-epstein-health/

Seems like the EPA coal regs will save alot of money!

Joe Romm from the Center for American Progress?? You won't find a more bias source if you tried.

Quote:
The Center for Health and the Global Environment at Harvard Medical School, the first such center at a medical school in the United States, was founded in 1996 to help promote a wider understanding of the human health consequences of global environmental change. By focusing on environmental change through the lens of human health, the Center is able to reach people in concrete, personal terms they can relate to and understand. The Center is an official Collaborating Center of the U.N. Environment Programme and works alongside many other organizations throughout the world.

http://chge.med.harvard.edu/about/
Yeah, they aren't biased in the least.
Quote:
climate contributions from combustion between $61.7 and $205.8 billion

I'm glad they could pin that down accurately!

I thought I'd post articles and references like you do...

Quote:
The Center for Health and the Global Environment at Harvard Medical School, the first such center at a medical school in the United States, was founded in 1996 to help promote a wider understanding of the human health consequences of global environmental change. By focusing on environmental change through the lens of human health, the Center is able to reach people in concrete, personal terms they can relate to and understand. The Center is an official Collaborating Center of the U.N. Environment Programme and works alongside many other organizations throughout the world.

Also these guys don't sound too bad, who would you trust with your childs lungs? Harvard Medical school or a scare mongering coal lobby front group?
I'm sure the coal lobbyists fought even basic enviromental controls back when acid rain was kill millions of lakes too. And I'm very glad the EPA got them to clean up their act.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: jaj
Isn't it amazing that a study funded by a coal-fired power plant industry association reveals that new regulations are bad.

The study was supposed to be based on US Government source material - I expect that the EPA did this analysis as well and I wonder what their version says?


Quote:
Industry groups believe that a regulation such as this could cost thousands of jobs and increase the electric rates across the country. However, Lisa Jackson, EPA administrator, estimated that the regulation would cost industry $10 billion by 2015, but said the health and environmental improvements would be worth more than $100 billion a year.

http://www.eesolutions.net/environmental-regulations/epa-regulation-coal-fired-power-plants/

The people in the industry that actually run coal plants are far more familiar with reality than are the bureaucrats at the EPA.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan

Also these guys don't sound too bad, who would you trust with your childs lungs? Harvard Medical school or a scare mongering coal lobby front group?

I'll take the coal lobby any time. They actually provide me something useful for the money I pay them.

Quote:
Paul R. Epstein, M.D., M.P.H. is Associate Director of the Center for Health and the Global Environment at Harvard Medical School (http://chge.med.harvard.edu) and is a medical doctor trained in tropical public health. He has worked with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) to assess the health impacts of climate change and develop health applications of climate forecasting and remote sensing and is co-author with Dan Ferber of the book "Changing Planet, Changing Health," University of California Press, 2011.

And tornadoes caused by climate change? IPCC? Climate forcasting?
http://chge.med.harvard.edu/publications/media/Exclusives/tornadoesandclimatechange.html
Talk about a scare monger. This guy is a first class econut.

 

[JHZR2]

Don't worry, we will absorb the job loss in the costs of employing paint shops to repaint our cars due to all the acid rain and fallout. Of course we will be able to afford it with all the money we are saving by burning coal. It's a perfectly reasonable balance...

And everyone will LOVE to have a coal plant or two in their back yard, Tempest first, I'm sure...

 

[wallyuwl]

For whatever the EPA is involved in, it guarantees a price increase and likely job losses.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Don't worry, we will absorb the job loss in the costs of employing paint shops to repaint our cars due to all the acid rain and fallout.

Is this happening now?

 

[SrDriver]

Don't worry because power plants in Mexico will help us out just like they did when Texas had a power shortages not along ago.

No EPA issues there.

 

[JHZR2]

Yep. I guess we can pay the detail shop instead... It's fine, coal power is so cheap, right???

http://kensonthespot.wordpress.com/2009/12/09/acid-rain-auto-paint-finishes-can-be-saved/

 

[rshaw125]

Originally Posted By: SrDriver
Don't worry because power plants in Mexico will help us out just like they did when Texas had a power shortages not along ago.

No EPA issues there.



Good point. We have sent our jobs overseas or over the border. Now we can send our electricity production.So we'll be importing electricity, oil and goods that were once made in the US.
As I said earlier the EPA needs a massive budget cut.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Don't worry, we will absorb the job loss in the costs of employing paint shops to repaint our cars due to all the acid rain and fallout.

Is this happening now?


No, what a silly question. Oh, wait, were you being sarcastic?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Originally Posted By: SrDriver
Don't worry because power plants in Mexico will help us out just like they did when Texas had a power shortages not along ago.

No EPA issues there.



Good point. We have sent our jobs overseas or over the border. Now we can send our electricity production.So we'll be importing electricity, oil and goods that were once made in the US.
As I said earlier the EPA needs a massive budget cut.



Right because removing those regulations is going to prevent companies from hiring 25c/hr wage slaves instead of $20/hr domestic laborers??!?!? Because people are going to demand domestic made stuff in place of their bottom basement priced wal matt widgets??!

Riiiiiiight...

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Don't worry, we will absorb the job loss in the costs of employing paint shops to repaint our cars due to all the acid rain and fallout.


You forgot most northeast states require auto emissions testing to clean the air that floats over from the midwest. The geography isn't a bowl like Los Angeles, so whatever comes over has to be dealt with.

 

[Tempest]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Yep. I guess we can pay the detail shop instead... It's fine, coal power is so cheap, right???

http://kensonthespot.wordpress.com/2009/12/09/acid-rain-auto-paint-finishes-can-be-saved/

Nice write up on the chemical effects of acid rain on paint. Now, can you provide some information as to how prevalent this is and how damaging it is to the economy?

 

[Trvlr500]

I find it hard to believe anyone would take ANYTHING the Center for American Progress says as true. That goes for Harvard as well especially when it concerns the environment.

The Center for American Progress is NOT on our side. Their goal is just the opposite of what their title claims. Harvard isn't exactly teaching anything that is in our best interest either. It's a great place to get an education but it's what is DONE with the education that is frightening.

If people would research organizations like the Center for American Progress they wouldn't believe anything they say. It's like listening to the Sierra Club, Greenpeace, or the Natural Resources Defense Council. These people are a big part the reason our gas prices are so high and we have the economic problems we have.

As for the EPA. That's one agency that we need to get rid of or at LEAST force them to obey the law. They don't have the authority to do what they are doing. They are un-elected.