Payne HVAC = pain in the rear.

[01rangerxl]

As a renter, I basically have no say in how the house I live in is repaired. All I can do is try to maintain it. I'm not going to dump more money into something that isn't mine.

Last summer the original 25 year old Trane heat pump gave out in my house. The landlord was quoted about $6K for a new Trane or Carrier heat pump and air handler, but instead he chose to go with a $2K cheaper "Payne." Mistake.

This summer has not gone well with the Payne. Shortly after we started using the AC regularly, something broke in the air handler and it stopped blowing cold air. I'm not sure what, it wasn't my problem. I know the installer also added refrigerant when he did the repair. Today I came home from work and the house was 87*. I called the installer and he determined the circuit board in the heat pump is bad. He did something to rig it up to work in the meantime, but the circuit board will need to be replaced.

I don't fault the installer. It looks like he did good work on his part. The plumbing and general installation quality is very good. The equipment itself is just complete garbage. It has all these problems now, while under warranty, so I don't think it's going to make it 5 years. 25 years is out of the question. That's $800 a year if the Payne doesn't break after the warranty, vs. $240 a year for the Trane.

Moral of the story, if you own a house, don't cheap out on the A/C.

 

[friendly_jacek]

I hate to say it but all new HVAC equipment is junk made in China or Mexico. My heat pump is old (15 years) and developed a small evaporator leak last summer. I did some research and decided that 15 year old made in USA hardware is better than the modern stuff. $50 worth sealant in can and extra freon fixed that and it worked fine since.

 

[wallyuwl]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
I hate to say it but all new HVAC equipment is junk made in China or Mexico.


Trane still has a large plant in LaCrosse, WI.

 

[hatcoleman]

The Payne is made in Tenn. and is a Carrier company. I sold them for thirty years. Had very low warranty claims. And sold several thousand of them. Have them in my personal home. For several years sold Trane too. Most problems are from improper installation.

 

[friendly_jacek]

You guys forget where the new components are made. I had a contactor that failed 2 years ago (burnt contacts after 13 years of hard work, made in USA). Got a replacement with much higher specs (made in China) that lasted only 6 months (shorted coil). Fortunately, I made one good contactor from 2 bad ones and ordered another new one (could only find made in China ones) just in case.

 

[meangreen01]

Payne is made by Carrier, as is Bryant. They're all basically the same thing. FWIW, I'd take any Carrier product over Trane any day.

As far as the early failure, any manufacturer out there has them. The whole designed by humans, built by humans thing.

 

[01rangerxl]

Originally Posted By: hatcoleman
The Payne is made in Tenn. and is a Carrier company. I sold them for thirty years. Had very low warranty claims. And sold several thousand of them. Have them in my personal home. For several years sold Trane too. Most problems are from improper installation.


I did not know that. I haven't seen too many Paynes and always assumed it to be some cheap Trane knockoff.

While there are certainly far more variables that come into play with the installation vs. the manufacturing of the equipment, I really don't think it's a bad install in my case. The guy did very clean and thorough work. He also explained checking/cleaning the drain on the air handler, and helped troubleshoot over the phone. Plus, a failure in the circuit board is kind of hard to blame on him.

I think friendly_jacek is probably right unfortunately. The fact that components inside the equipment are failing seems to point to corner cutting in where those components are sourced.

Working in the outdoor power equipment industry I've run into the same type of problems. Some brands that were great a decade or two ago are selling garbage now because of the suppliers they use or who bought them out.

At least it's under warranty for now...thankfully I already planned on moving out before the warranty runs out.

 

[Touring5]

My first real job out of college was working in the local BDP factory. BDP stood for Bryant, Day & Night, Payne. Even then in the early 80's it was a division of Carrier Corporation. During that time frame they used aluminum tubing in their condensing units - as a result I bought a Heil for our house (circa 1989) because they were using copper (I believe Carrier switched back to Cu shortly thereafter). Had a Trane furnace installed a few years later which was replaced 4 years ago with a Bryant furnace. The Trane unit had a 2 stage blower and the Bryant just 1. As a result the furnace/blower is much louder than with the Trane. That was my mistake and I'm hoping it is more reliable than the Trane was (poor flame sensor design).

The Heil condensing unit is still working and has maintained proper operating pressures without ever needing any refrigerant. I suspect what a previous poster said was correct, that a lot of components and suppliers now use lower quality offshore (china) components. Sadly this is probably true with 90% + of all consumer products available today.

 

[Papa Bear]

Originally Posted By: Touring5
During that time frame they used aluminum tubing in their condensing units -



That was done to match the aluminum wiring feeding electricity to the unit ......

- - -

 

[mjoekingz28]

A good technician is very valuable. I got power to my new home Friday. The inspection report for the house stated the HVAC was inop. So Saturday my Dad asks his golfing buddy (HVAC TECH) to come have a look. I was cleaning inside and decided it'd be best to not be in the way. 30 minutes later the air is cold and he is out the door.

Then my Dad explained what happened. The control board on the inside unit had a short I think, so he switched some wires. And on the outside unit's wiring, he wedged a twig in one of the contacts. 30 minutes later and we're getting hot air. So much for redneck engineering right? No, just the twig fell out. Replace it and its good.

This is just until we can get a more permanent fix. The AC runs full time when activated and it much be switched on inside breaker first, outside breaker second.


I was saying after having troubles with my car that we were throwing parts at. A mechanic can replace parts all day long, but a technician knows what to replace. It goes something like that. Mechanic fixes while tech diagnoses.

 

[Schmoe]

Geesh, you guys are stressing me out. My Lennox developed a leak in the coils on the condenser last year. Luckily, the tech found it and was able to weld it back together. It was a place where the copper tube was rubbing a piece of metal. Anyway, system is at least 17 years old and has been outstanding. He told me to start eyeballing new units. Yikes, they are all well above 7K....now with the workmanship issues ya'll are bringing up, I'm praying it will last a lot longer.