Can you predict how a tire will ride based on feel

[Hokiefyd]

This is a very direct question. I'm always "shopping" for tires, even when I don't need any. I'm looking at the P215/60R16 size. Strolling through the tire department at Sam's Club, I see a few interesting ones. Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S and BFGoodrich Advantage T/A for instance. Now, the sidewalls of the Michelin are very firm, very rigid. Yet, most reviews of this tire indicate how nice it rides, at least for a "sporty" tire. I compare that with the BFG, and its sidewalls feel very thin, very flexible. Yet, it seems to have a reputation as a firm-riding tire.

Can anything be deduced by feeling the tire at the store? Everything objective (including the great price) tells me the Pilot Exalto A/S would be a great match for me, but I can't reconcile the great survey reviews with the fact that it subjectively feels like it would ride like a rock (and the opposite for the BFG).

Thanks.

 

[IndyIan]

For ride you can guess by having a look on what the sidewall plys are. 1 of nylon is pretty cushy and is soft to squeeze as well.
I think also you have to keep in mind the profile of the tire too, the same tire model must have significantly different constructions if it has a wide range of profiles.
I just put on some 1 nylon ply sidewall sumitomo HTR200's on the Neon and they do ride very nice, seemingly smoother than even my 1 nylon ply sidewall snowtires. I guess there is a compromise for "sharpness" with 1 ply sidewalls but I won our clubs autocross last sunday with them at 38psi cold so they are "sharp" enough for me.

 

[The Critic]

Usually a tire with a very soft sidewall will have poor steering responsiveness (i.e. Continental DWS), and this sometimes results in better ride quality. Of course, this is not always true.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Can anything be deduced by feeling the tire at the store?

I would say no. You have no idea how that sidewall will behave once it's inflated to the recommended PSI level and once it is under the load of the car.

So, I would rely on survey results and comparison tests rather than your sense of touch.

But keep in mind that Exalto A/S is a High Performance A/S tire while the Advantage T/A is a Grand Touring A/S tire, so in theory, I'd expect the T/A to have a softer ride.

Now, the reviews may say that Exalto A/S rides soft for a High Perf tire but that may in reality still be stiffer than firm-riding Grand Touring tire such as the Advantage T/A. It's all about the point of reference.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Now, the reviews may say that Exalto A/S rides soft for a High Perf tire but that may in reality still be stiffer than firm-riding Grand Touring tire such as the Advantage T/A. It's all about the point of reference.

What I was referring to here is that if you're talking about TireRack's user survey results, they are not reliable for comparison of tires that belong in different categories. So, you can compare two Grand Touring tires or two High Perf tires, but not a Grand Touring tire against a High Perf tire.

 

[RamFan]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
This is a very direct question. I'm always "shopping" for tires, even when I don't need any. I'm looking at the P215/60R16 size. Strolling through the tire department at Sam's Club, I see a few interesting ones. Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S and BFGoodrich Advantage T/A for instance. Now, the sidewalls of the Michelin are very firm, very rigid. Yet, most reviews of this tire indicate how nice it rides, at least for a "sporty" tire. I compare that with the BFG, and its sidewalls feel very thin, very flexible. Yet, it seems to have a reputation as a firm-riding tire.

Can anything be deduced by feeling the tire at the store? Everything objective (including the great price) tells me the Pilot Exalto A/S would be a great match for me, but I can't reconcile the great survey reviews with the fact that it subjectively feels like it would ride like a rock (and the opposite for the BFG).

Thanks.


I can't answer your question but I can tell you that I've got those BFG on my Charger and I like the ride quiet a lot. Nice and smooth around corners and on bumpy roads.

With that being said I think I'm immune from feeling a huge difference between different tires. Maybe it is me growing up in trucks and always having a stiff/rigid ride that makes me pretty lenient on what I consider a "smooth ride"

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Now, the reviews may say that Exalto A/S rides soft for a High Perf tire but that may in reality still be stiffer than firm-riding Grand Touring tire such as the Advantage T/A. It's all about the point of reference.

What I was referring to here is that if you're talking about TireRack's user survey results, they are not reliable for comparison of tires that belong in different categories. So, you can compare two Grand Touring tires or two High Perf tires, but not a Grand Touring tire against a High Perf tire.

I agree. Comparing customer survey of 2 tires in 2 separate categories is not valid.

 

[440Magnum]

My opinion: there's NOTHING you can tell about how a tire performs by how it feels. The tire system is composed of the tire, the rim, and the air pressure inside the tire. Just because a tire has soft-feeling sidewalls when its not mounted on the rim doesn't mean that it will have wallowy handling or a soft ride. When the air pressure inside pulls all the structure of the tire taut, it may have VERY good handling dynamics. Same goes for ride quality.

Now if you go to the extreme... of course LT-rated tires with twice as many sidewall plys as a passenger car tire are more likely to have a jitery ride. But they're also less likely to rupture from hitting a curb or a sharp rock, AND they will handle much better when loaded to their maximum weight capacity than a P-car tire will- different design philosophy.

 

[JosephHarmon]

Poke a finger in the sidewall.

 

[mrsilv04]

Grab one of these.

Feel the sidewall. Flimsy, right?

When it is on the vehicle, the tire will ride like it is full of pudding. They'll float all over the road, regardless of how they're inflated... No surprise there.

First hand experience.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
Grab one of these.

Feel the sidewall. Flimsy, right?

When it is on the vehicle, the tire will ride like it is full of pudding. They'll float all over the road, regardless of how they're inflated... No surprise there.

First hand experience.


Coincidence doesn't mean cause-and-effect.

There are a lot of very soft sidewall PERFORMANCE tires. And besides that, my experience with Uniroyal Laredos is that they're a rather good on-road SUV tire. My 01 Cherokee had them when I bought it and it handled well (for an SUV anyway). Much more responsive than Wranglers, for sure. My gripe with them was that while dry traction was fine, wet traction was horrible. Could have been because they were so old they were completely spiderwebbed with dry-rot, too. They came off the truck pretty quick.

 

[Reggaemon]

I don't know about how the sidewall feel affect ride in general but I can tell you about the two tires you are conparing.
I've used both the Pilot Exalto a/s and the Advantage T/A in the same size your looking at 215/60-16. The Advantage T/A's were V rated and the Exaltos are H rated so that could be taken into consideration.
The Advantage T/A's rode a little harder and were more than a little louder than the Exaltos. Steering response was about equal, I never could push either tire to let loose in dry conditions but the T/A was better at high speed in the rain. Those tires would never hydoplane. I know that the Michelin is considered the High Performance tire and the Advantage is considered the Grand touring tire but to me it felt the other way around. All that being said I perfer the Michelin over the BF Goodrich. Its ride and quietness win out.

 

[rjundi]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Usually a tire with a very soft sidewall will have poor steering responsiveness (i.e. Continental DWS), and this sometimes results in better ride quality. Of course, this is not always true.


Owning a set of DWS coupled to a decent handling Subaru Legacy GT I completely disagree with your statement. The responsiveness is not quite as good as other Ultra High Performance AS(UHPAS) tires, it is on par with other High Performance all-seasons even the better handling ones.

However it may be possible poorer handling(most) vehicles it is more noticeable. My other benchmark is a Subaru WRX with RE960's and previously Pilot Sport A/S on the Legacy.

 

[AstroTurf]

Simple Answer... No.

 

[FZ1]

No. Too many variables.

 

[kr_bitog]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
This is a very direct question. I'm always "shopping" for tires, even when I don't need any. I'm looking at the P215/60R16 size. Strolling through the tire department at Sam's Club, I see a few interesting ones. Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S and BFGoodrich Advantage T/A for instance. Now, the sidewalls of the Michelin are very firm, very rigid. Yet, most reviews of this tire indicate how nice it rides, at least for a "sporty" tire. I compare that with the BFG, and its sidewalls feel very thin, very flexible. Yet, it seems to have a reputation as a firm-riding tire.

Can anything be deduced by feeling the tire at the store? Everything objective (including the great price) tells me the Pilot Exalto A/S would be a great match for me, but I can't reconcile the great survey reviews with the fact that it subjectively feels like it would ride like a rock (and the opposite for the BFG).

Thanks.


In my experience is yes, this will rather obvious if your car suspension is firm. Many people can not accept the reality that the suspension and tyre should have matching spring rate to give best handling and comfort performance. My car has sport suspension that is 30% stiffer than standard, whenever I use tyre with soft sidewall and standard inflation, the ride is uncomfortable even though the grip in slow speed is great, however the tyre will fold during high speed cornering that may cause sudden traction loss. Whenever I pump a few psi more, the ride is getting more comfortable but the traction will suffer.

When I use tyre with stiffer sidewall, then I do not need inflate much more than standard inflation, and I can maximise the comfort and traction.

The simple guide that I learned and I think it is much easier than Daw's guide on the other locked tread, is understand your car suspension whether consider softly sprung/hard and identify what is the original tyre stiffness and inflation.

Most car nowadays will need 32 psi to have better handling, but if comfort ride is priority this can be reduced to 30psi except the standard placard advise higher than that for the same size of tyre with same load index.
The maximum pressure is what is written on the tyre, and the best pressure is somewhat in between the 32(or minimum on placard) till max pressure that typically within 2-6 psi for normal driving, and another 3-5 psi additional for driving above 80mph continuously.