Mercedes Benz 240D Manual vs Automatic !!!

[S2500Dog]

Hello guys,

I've been reading and looking at the Mercedes Benz 240D W123 series. I've read that some came with a four speed manual while most of them came equipped with the automatic transmission that was very problematic and complex due to the vacuum control parts. My question is what is more reliable and durable in the 240D, the manual or the automatic? I know Mercedes Benz introduced the vacuum controlled automatic transmission in 1978 and use it exclusively in the early and mid 1980s. However, do the 1977 and older use the vacuum controlled automatic or are they more traditional in the setup? Lists the pros and cons of the manual and automatic transmission in the 240D.

 

[Chris142]

I'm not a Mercedes guy but I despise AT's. I still refuse to own one since repairs can put you in the poor house. Add "Mercedes" to the estimate and the price tripples.

I've had bad luck with the 3 AT's I owned. Even with coolers and regular fluid drain and fills they all left me walking.

Sure you can get a used trans cheaper than a rebuilt. But after installing 3 transmissions in a week and having 3 nonworking ones in a row in and out I went looking for a 4sp and clutch pedal settup.

End of AT problems.

 

[needsducktape]

agreed- I avoid AT

They are much more reliable than they used to be, but still- At the end of the day, I choose manual.

Here is why

Fun, more economical, greater control. -and likely to be more reliable.

 

[S2500Dog]

I hear you Chris142, Im not 100% comfortable with these vacuum controlled automatic transmission in the older Mercedes Benz diesel. I rather have a four speed and clutch so I don't have to worry about vacuum related components and problems later down the road which does cost some serious money for these cars.

 

[123Saab]

FWIW, I grew up in Helsinki Finland where at that point of time ALL cabs were mercedes Diesels, and all of them were actually column mounted sticks.

They lasted a long time, as they should have, as they were not a cheap investment.

 

[JHZR2]

I have and currently own multiple w123 cars. The only issue with the automatics is if you dont understand them. The typical wage monkey may not, but any decent tech can more than adjust them and make them shift well. They are NOT electronic, so they can be tuned fairly easily actually to get the optimal shift feel...

I currently own a 300CD and a 240D. My 240D only has 73k miles, so it is a fair representation of what a w123 was like when new. Everything is firm and nice.

THe 240D only has about 67hp. Mine has an AT. The AT will suck a bit more power down, but the gearing is such that I have no issue accelerating. The engine is quite willing, just takes about 16 seconds to 60. I doubt the manual is much faster but likely a second. The biggest issue with a 240D is road noise at speed. It is fine at 65 MPH (car will do 80+), and some owners drive all day long at 70-75. However the engine is loud because it is spinning pretty fast.

Having owned multiple w123 cars, I can tell you that 230k miles is doable without an AT rebuild. I have two examples. I have another example with 165k that shifts beauifully and the 240D with 73k. That said, Im an MT fan and would have preferred MT in any of the cars. The fact that you can get an MT 240D means that if in the market for a w123 240D, that should be your first preference. However, rust and body condition should be your first criteria, because the cars can be prone to rust in places such as the hood hinge pockets if not looked after.

The AT is weak like any other. I wouldnt have faith in it lasting more than 150-160k without rebuild, though as mentioned, longer is very doable. Its just the reality that after that kind of mileage, you should expect to have to save and pay for a rebuild... But that is the case on ANY AT vehicle from any manufacturer.

Again, set the AT up well with firmer shifts and it should last a very long time. Some had issues such as the B2 piston, but as mentioned, Ive not experienced any such issues and my cars all have all receipts.

They are great cars:

Hope you find a nice one! When you do, post pictures!!!

 

[Spazdog]

The automatic 240D may have been the only car I've ever driven that could not bark it's tires on polished concrete.

It is a seriously slow car. I think it's slower than an early Rabbit diesel.

But there is something to be said about the way the rest of the car is built. Heavy. Sturdy. And those boingy springy '70s-'80s Mercedes Benz seats can be entertaining if a little unsettling.

I personally think they are quite beautiful cars. Especially if you can get a grey-market model. Then again I think composite headlamped Volvo 240s are beautiful cars too so my opinion means little on that.

The only thing that concerns me about the manual is replacement parts if it does break. I'm certain you can still get seals, clutch, pressure-plate, throwout bearing etc.... but what about internals?

 

[G-MAN]

Never had any problems with the auto trans in my 77 240D and it had over 200K on it when I sold it. Regular fluid changes and adjustment by a competent Benz mechanic are the key to longevity on those old 4-speed autos.

 

[S2500Dog]

Thanks for all the input guys. It seems that these old school 4 speed autos are very durable and reliable as long as you do ATF fluid changes every 30k miles with the OEM Transmission Service Kit and quality ATF fluid. Also you need a honest and trustful MB mechanic to carefully inspect and diagnose all vacuum related components of the engine and transmission before making adjustments on the autos so everything can work 100% effectively.

 

[Astro14]

Can't speak to the auto on a W123...but my 1981 240D was a manual...and went to the crusher (GD salt on the roads killed it...) with 227K and the ORIGINAL clutch and transmission still in it.

I still miss that car!

 

[fdcg27]

We have had four old Mercedes with the transmission to which you refer, and the slushbox was always completely free of problems.
These seem to be very durable automatics, like everything else in an old-school Benz.
If you can find a stick, it would be faster, more economical and more fun to drive.
I drove a grey market 123 wagon with the four speed stick (a 230 TE), and it had pleasant shifting and clutch action.
I wish I had bought it!
If you can find a good 123, it would certainly be worth buying.
Probably the best choice would be a gas 230E, although the diesels are far more common, and do have their own charm.
Be aware that you have never driven anything as slow as a 240D.
Our '81 Vanagon would suck the headlights out of our '78 240D, although the 240D was stronger at higher speeds, and had greater top speed.

 

[mechtech2]

Mercedes uses nice little drain Plugs on their torque converters.
Make sure to drain it along with your fluid changes!

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Mercedes uses nice little drain Plugs on their torque converters.
Make sure to drain it along with your fluid changes!


Just one problem: The 4-speed auto in the W123 doesn't have a torque converter.

 

[eljefino]

I had an 83 with the 4 speed. Odd that it could pull 25 in 4th gear and yes it sounded like it was screaming at 65.

In addition to its diesel charms the suspension had around a foot of travel. Add classic RWD handling, but with 4 wheel independent suspension, and you can make up for your lack of power by not slowing for curves.

My best tank was 34 MPG. My car was miraculously not rusty though the old door rubber seals were in terrible shape. Wind noise was crazy. I'm sure I could get the rubber, and I'm sure I could pay for it too.

Normal maintenance parts like brake rotors are still in stock at Advance auto. I got cheap filters thru Amazon.com of all places.

Someone on a benz forum put a 67 hp 240D automatic on a chassis dyno and found 37 hp at the wheels, FWIW.

The vacuum system on these runs the door locks, engine shutoff, and other stuff. A leak screws everything up and also the transmission. If you test a car out, turn the key off, and see how instantaneously the engine shuts down.

 

[steve20]

67 HP, with ram air no less