Septic system failed the dye test.

[JTK]

I apologize for the long one here, I'm a bit stressed!

We're in the process of buying a new home real close to where we live now. Found the 'new' home, fell in love with it and placed a bid on it contingent that we could sell our current home.

Our home sold real quick, we were able to clear the contingency, everybody's happy, the buyer's home inspection was satisfactory, mortgage commitments are in and we're moving right along! Until yesterday that is..

I knew the last hurdle was passing a septic system dye test to complete the County Health Dept property transfer. It was a two day test. Dude came to the house and dumped a shampoo type bottle of liquid yellow/green dye down the toilet, read the water meter, said run ~300 gal/day for 3 days and he'll be back to inspect.

Of course my yard is wet in places it's NEVER been wet before due to all the rain. The inspector decided to climb through a bunch of brush/thicket in the far corner of my yard I'd never think to go to (nobody goes to) and low and behold there's some 'antifreeze' green staring at us.

My system is from 1956 and has never been a problem for us. I always knew it could go at any time and I'd like to think the buyers know this as well.

My question is, has anyone here ever been through this before?

I guess my options are: 1) Push the closing way off until I pay for and get an entire new system installed and re-inspected.

2) Get the owners to sign a condition waiver to buy as-is, which includes a $1000 payment from me.

I'm hoping for option 2 and I would be willing to contribute to replacement cost. If I've got to pay full boat, I'll cancel the whole transaction, wait a year and go through the nightmare again. !@#$%

FWIW, it looks like around $6000-8K for a new system.


Joel

 

[MNgopher]

You got over 50 years out of a system that (at least around here) has a design life of 30 years. Not bad...

That said, you are looking at paying for the replacement yourself to close the deal or a substantial reduction in your selling price (or added cash in from you). Pretty unlikely the buyer will just eat the cost of the new system. Most deals like this around here end up with:

Seller paying the replacement cost of the system to the buyer and the buyer gets to choose the company and handle it. Or the deal falls apart.

 

[suspiciousmind]

That really STINKS!!!

I feel ypur pain though....I think I'm starting to have the same issues.

 

[IndyIan]

What is the dye test even supposed to show? The whole idea of a septic system is to "treat" the waste water a bit before the water flows out into the ground and solids stay in the tank.
So this spring your bed is saturated with rainfall, and can't absorb waste water into the ground and they see the the dye. If they redo the test in August probably it will pass...
I'm impressed it absorbed 900 gallons in three days without backing up in this weather.

 

[40Deluxe]

Why not have a clause put in contract that the price of house is adjusted reflecting half the price of the new system,they obviously are in love with the house if it sold so quick,that way you dont take all the hit and they dont either.

 

[CivicFan]

We were in a similar situation recently. When we bought our house, the septic failed the dye test by our inspector. The seller hired another inspector for a second opinion and the result was the same. With such a failure, we could not take ownership of the title.

We established an escrow account with our RE agent and the seller deposited the estimated amount. The estimate is for $9,700. If the new system costs less, the residual will go to the seller. If the actual cost is higher than $9,700 then the seller will pay the difference.

Basically, we negotiated that it would be the responsibility of the seller. Otherwise we were going to walk away.

 

[MNgopher]

In our area, ANY surface discharge of septic waste is a public health hazard. A properly designed and funtioning system will not have a surface discharge, even in wet ground conditions.

That is what a dye test can show, though as you noted it may vary based on the weather conditions. I'd note the inspections that are done here (called a compliance inspection) may not include a dye test, but review a lot of other factors that can label the system non-compliant. Seasonal water within 18" of the bottom of the bed is one of the items that will fail you, and the soil will tell the tale on that, dry year or not.

 

[ahoier]

Have it pumped out, then re-inspected? That's one way around it.


Your drain field sounds like it's clogged somewhere, causing it to "pool up" in the far corner.....we bought a brand new house (had it built) and within the 1st year we had to have the tank pumped, septic pumper chalked it up to too much bleach/cleaners, toilet tissue, baby wipes and feminine products....sad to say but yea, apparantly the teenagers were flushing tampons (the boxes do state "Safe for toilet disposal" but do not state "Do not flush down septic systems"....pfft.) and the 3 year old was flushing baby wipes apparantly during potty training. About 8 months later, we had the down stairs toilet over flow again, wouldn't flush, was not obstructed in any way, and they had to pump it out again.


Then we contacted the builders and they claimed the septic system (which should last at LEAST 10 years) only carry a 1 year warranty...


Long story short, we've gone the additive route. I've used the "Septi-Free" product, with good results, I dumped the whole bottle in immediately after that latter pump out, and the system went a good year and a half without needing to be pumped; it's a tad more acceptable. Obviously, we were watching more closely what we were flushing (or should I say, not flushing), how we were washing, etc...changed out all our shower heads to 2.5 gpm units, and it hasn't been too much of an issue now.

I've since not been able to find "Septi-Free" at my local WM, so we've been using Roebic products, K-57 "Emergency Care" as well as their "Septic System Cleaner" about every 1.5 months and haven't had much of a problem.....


Definitely stay away from Rid-Ex....we had no luck with it. The one time we tried it, the tank needed to be pumped out about 8 months later, apparantly the Rid-Ex "expands" and can clog the baffles in the septic tank, stopping the grey water from draining into the drain field, where it's supposed to be "treated" naturally...

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: ahoier
Have it pumped out, then re-inspected? That's one way around it.


No can do. It would be obvious as all get-out given I'd have to dig up the cover, plus the health department has a stipulation that the system cannot have been pumped out so many days prior to the test. My little 500gal tank would fill right back up with another $300 test anyway.

Oh Lord! Yeah, you definitely don't want the ladies of the house to flush any hygiene products, plus you have to go light on the toilet paper. Everyone's been onboard with that at my house for years. Use something like Scott's single ply ONLY. Gross I know, but you're better off using and trashing wipes for 'big' jobs.

It's a [censored]-shoot to wait for it to dry out and re-test with the risk of loosing weeks/months, pay for a mortgage extension and another $300 test.

My system drains/leaches just fine, it's just carrying visible dye with it.

I catch the waste water from everyone on the street above me and the guy below me catches all the goodness. Sad thing is, my system functions like new compared to some on the street.

Joel

 

[IndyIan]

Maybe just raise the grade a bit in that area with some gravel and cover with topsoil and some flowers... Its sort of like increasing bed area

If you do have to replace the bed, get lots of quotes as the new contact beds are quite small for large loads. We put in a "huge" capacity one incase we double our house size and its something like 20'x30'? And our soil is clay based glacial till. In any case it didn't take them long with a big track hoe to do it all. I think it rang in around $5k for everything.

 

[Sayjac]

If it had been later in the summer, I bet you would have passed the test.

Not sure what to advise, but hope it works out.

 

[Pop_Rivit]

The dye test with the large amount of water stress tests the system to make sure it's functioning correctly. You should never see dye on top of the ground. Repeat, you should never, under any circumstances see dye on top of the ground. If the dye makes it to the surface then raw sewage will also make it to the surface. It doesn't make a difference how wet the soil might be, the system should still be capable of keeping waste from reaching the surface.

The test doesn't provide any information about the condition of the system, it simply tells you that it's undersized for an average family, the soil doesn't percolate well, or the system is extremely clogged.

If you have a 50 year old 500 gallon septic system then it's time for it to be replaced, period. 500 gallon systems are far to small for even two people-1500 gallons with a well designed leach field should be a minimum size for an average household.

 

[Al]

I would have turned the water off the minute he left. What were you thinking???

 

[mrsilv04]

Originally Posted By: Al
I would have turned the water off the minute he left. What were you thinking???


He read the water meter.

But, some of the 900 gallons of water that was put into the septic system could have gone somewhere else... like into the sump pump and into a storm water system.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04

But, some of the 900 gallons of water that was put into the septic system could have gone somewhere else... like into the sump pump and into a storm water system.

Exactly.

I think any tank under those conditions would have showed a problem. When the ground is saturated...where is the water supposed to go?

 

[CivicFan]

I can't believe I am reading someone promoting unethical behavior.

 

[Win]

If the house had a fifty year old septic system that could fail at any time, or is inadequate by modern standards, that should be reflected in the selling price, I would think.

Or does your state law prevent you from passing title to the property as-is?

 

[D189379]

That seems like a lot of water over 3 days. We use about 1/3 of that.

 

[mrsilv04]

To those who are shocked that they are seeing suggestions of cheating here...

Let's look at 300 gallons.

That's 60 FULL five gallon buckets of water, a day, times THREE days.

What kind of a household discharges a total of 180 FULL 5 gallon buckets of water in a period of THREE days straight?

It would appear that some of these municipalities are coming up with tests specifically designed to FAIL septic systems, only so they can then demand that they be replaced.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
To those who are shocked that they are seeing suggestions of cheating here...

Let's look at 300 gallons.

That's 60 FULL five gallon buckets of water, a day, times THREE days.

What kind of a household discharges a total of 180 FULL 5 gallon buckets of water in a period of THREE days straight?

It would appear that some of these municipalities are coming up with tests specifically designed to FAIL septic systems, only so they can then demand that they be replaced.



How would you feel if you were the buyer and the seller cheated like that and you ended up with a bad septic system?