is there a product to curb ethanol issues?

[daz]

I realize a modern engine doesn't have issues with ethanol as far as ruining rubber parts or any of that. however, there are 3 issues i think we have to live deal when it comes to the progressively larger amounts of ethanol they are putting in our fuel....octane depletion, MPG and power loss. Is there an additive that curbs those two issues and the general consensus is that it's not a placebo but really works?

 

[MonumentOiler]

Diluting it with more real gasoline ?

- OCTANE - Ethanol should increase octane so that should not be an issue.
- MPG - Less energy per gallon = lower MPG
- POWERLOSS - See Above

 

[bepperb]

Ethanol has really high octane.

The MPG thing is a problem. The fix is to buy more. Wish I had a cornfield.

Power loss is not an issue with ethanol. If anything, because of the higher octane you can run a higher compression ratio and make more power (and some E85 vehicles do this automatically).

 

[demarpaint]

IIRC Stabil is marketing something. A commercial caught me eye, but I don't recall the details. You might want to google Stabil and see. HTH

 

[Ausfahrt]

It's blue and they call it their marine stabilizer. I will probably try it once I use up my old red Stabil.

And of course the new version costs about 50% more.

 

[MNgopher]

Ethanol is over 100 octane, so octane depletion is not an issue. Lower energy content and the corresponding decrease in fuel efficiency is an issue, though the power is not. Stabil won't address that, but will keep it "fresh" longer.

 

[FL_Rob]

Sta-bil Ethanol Treatment,on shelves now at my local W/M by the additives section ,not the 2cycle/marine section.

 

[Spazdog]

I saw a bunch of new-ish products promising all sorts of ethanol related promises in the OPE section of Home Depot.

 

[PZR2874]

Lucas has a "conditioner" that will help with longevity/freshness. Wonder if it helps with the eating of pumps, lines, etc...

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Ethanol is over 100 octane, so octane depletion is not an issue. Lower energy content and the corresponding decrease in fuel efficiency is an issue, though the power is not. Stabil won't address that, but will keep it "fresh" longer.


I think it's more to combat the corrosive properties of the ethanol on the fillers and resins in marine gas tanks than to fix any energy content problems.

 

[vintageant]

Why not just buy ethanol-free gas?

There may be a station near you:

http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp

That's all I use in my two oldies.

 

[daz]

Hmmm, ok. I had read in a number of places that ethanol depletes octane very quickly. I guess my main issue is power, or at least i THOUGHT it was. let me explain. I have a bike that is a cruiser, so it's not high compression or high revving. Yet for some reason it runs a lot stronger on 89 or 91 then on 87. That made no sense to me since if anything higher octane should run LESS strong if the engine doesn't need it due to CR or whatever. So the only thing i could see that would account for this is that i read that a lot of places have ethanol only in the regular. I can't see any other reason. And it's not just me, a number of guys with the same bike have noticed the same thing. the difference is enough so that if i run regular the bike feels like i just lost 10% of the power and feels quite weak by comparison.

What else could this be? remember, many with the same bike found this same thing, so it's not some issue of MINE.

as to buying ethanol free, i already saw that site and there are no places that have it where i am.

 

[MonumentOiler]

The ethanol will result in noticeable power loss unless the engine compensates by adding more fuel (MPG) . Most modern engines will do that. All will have reduced output at max fuel because there is less power from the same volume of fuel.

How old is your bike? It may just need to be tuned for the fuel.

 

[daz]

its a 2010, and it's custom mapped by a very good tuner. Doesn't seem to matter as far as that regular/midgrade issue goes.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

If it's custom mapped, it may have a more agressive timing advance curve( not always a good idea IMO!). Plus big pots are octane sensitve even in low compression engines due to the large CC area and propensity to detonation.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Since you own a bike w/ a small fuel tank, you can get yourself down to the local hardware store and buy a gallon of Toluene and a gallon of Xylene in the paint section. Then read up on how to make a fuel "booster" cocktail. This should be much cheaper than buying a "tuneup in a can". I dont recall the exact formula - but there is a bit of tcw3 in there too - but not too much. You have to use it every fillup.

 

[daz]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
If it's custom mapped, it may have a more agressive timing advance curve( not always a good idea IMO!). Plus big pots are octane sensitve even in low compression engines due to the large CC area and propensity to detonation.


as i said in an above post...

Quote:
What else could this be? remember, many with the same bike found this same thing, so it's not some issue of MINE.


And i am one of only 3 or 4 people running a custom map because it's a fairly new model and there are harley any maps/mods yet. many with every variation found the same thing.

 

[ahoier]

Originally Posted By: bigdreama
It's blue and they call it their marine stabilizer. I will probably try it once I use up my old red Stabil.
This may work....from what I've been told it "does" they market it towards "marine" use in particular since those engines are very picky in what gas they take....but really, when they talk about raising it to 15% - all older vehicles will be "picky" so I'd say give it a shot.....

But there are other alternatives.


Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Ethanol is over 100 octane, so octane depletion is not an issue.
I've heard this mentioned many times, YES, ethanol by nature is high octane, which is why they are giving us "less" gas - so in the end, they give us less "gas" but are able to meet the "AKI" requirement since ethanol by nature is a high octane.....

Quote:
Lower energy content and the corresponding decrease in fuel efficiency is an issue, though the power is not.
yep, it's been mentioned before something related to the "BTUs" - ethanol has a higher burn temperature or something (hence being higher octane....so they have to "buffer" it with gasoline).



As far as products for anti-ethanol; there's been similar threads asking this same question on nearly every auto forum.

Sta-bil Marine product (as mentioned above) is said to work.

Sta-bil also has an "orangish" product that comes in a 16-20oz. bottle that you measure dosage per gallon(s) of gas....WM "previously" had a large end cap display of it at my WM but have not seen it in a month or 2...which is said to curb ethanol effects somewhat.

Starbrite/Startron - There seems to be a big hub-bub around this product, touting "enzymes" that rejuvinate gasoline, and can spring life back to ethanol-laced gasoline. This product is sold in a 6 or 8 oz. bottle at my local WM in the Sporting Goods department, with the marine accessories....according to the bottle, 1 bottle treats up to ~128 gallons....and believe me, it's a very small bottle....lol. The bottle says you only need like 1 oz. per 16 gallons. The stuff is quite pricey though, at $9-$10....but as mentioned, there seems to be a big underground craze about this stuff....lol.




Personally, I've just been using Marvel Mystery Oil, at 3-4 oz. per 10 gallons of fuel. It's a light weight oil that adds some needed "lube" to the dry ethyl alcohol (ethanol's scientific name), resulting in a better burn, lubrication of the fuel system, pumps, injectors, and is also said to leave a "light film" of oil across the injector, rather than dry gasoline, so the injector(s) are less prone to be clogged. Driving my Dodge Aries I'd be in trouble if I lost an injector it only has 1

hehe

 

[daz]

well, thanks all. I am going to try MMO just for the lubrication and cleaning properties and not worry about MPG or power. Seems like it's a good idea and can't hurt. Speaking of cleaning, when you guys talk about using techron, are you saying you do this by running a tank of chevron premium, or can you actually buy techron as an additive?

 

[HTSS_TR]

Chevron 91 octane(93 in some other states) has more Techron than 87 and 89 octane, and you can buy Techron fuel system cleaner at almost any auto parts stores. Sometimes you can get it on sale like buy 1 get 1 free too.