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#2270885 - 05/25/11 06:26 PM What problems using kerosene in a diesel?
Shaman Offline


Registered: 07/27/04
Posts: 2298
Loc: Frankfort, Kentucky
Considering that diesel is cheaper here, for academic's sake, what problems will a little, or a lot of kerosene in a diesel engine cause?

Flame temp?
Lubricity?
VIscosity?

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#2270910 - 05/25/11 07:11 PM Re: What problems using kerosene in a diesel? [Re: Shaman]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4099
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Lubricity is definitely lower, as is energy value (especially in summer). Here in the USA there is no road usage tax on kerosene, but it will work fine in diesel, especially if 2-stroke oil is added to get the lubricity up.
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#2270917 - 05/25/11 07:24 PM Re: What problems using kerosene in a diesel? [Re: Shaman]
Shaman Offline


Registered: 07/27/04
Posts: 2298
Loc: Frankfort, Kentucky
Bullwinkle, I am seeing
1 gallon kerosene = 135,000 BTU
1 gallon diesel = 139,200 BTU

and I just got this from Lube Control

Bigger concern with running kerosene in a diesel engine is the higher combustion temperature. Everything in the combustion area will start wearing much faster (rings, gaskets, valves, etc.). This is seen in mines where they use kerosene to reduce the emissions because diesel would kill all the mine workers. Kerosene burns very clean, but also very hot.


Edited by Shaman (05/25/11 07:28 PM)

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#2273136 - 05/28/11 11:23 AM Re: What problems using kerosene in a diesel? [Re: Shaman]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 33786
Loc: New Jersey
Kerosine ha a different viscosity characteristic - not necessarily good for moving parts. Believe the aromatics may have been all removed too.

Kerosine is often used to cut diesel in cold weather. Besides being more pricey, Id not really see a huge benefit if cold fow isnt required.

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#2273440 - 05/28/11 07:27 PM Re: What problems using kerosene in a diesel? [Re: Shaman]
Shaman Offline


Registered: 07/27/04
Posts: 2298
Loc: Frankfort, Kentucky
Kerosene here runs about 2/3 the price of diesel.

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#2290973 - 06/17/11 10:31 PM Re: What problems using kerosene in a diesel? [Re: Shaman]
Gene K Offline


Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 3161
Loc: Decatur AL USA
Pretty close to #1 Diesel.
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#2472341 - 12/25/11 03:27 AM Re: What problems using kerosene in a diesel? [Re: Shaman]
Exhaustgases Offline


Registered: 12/18/11
Posts: 22
Loc: kirkland, wa
Kerosene should be pretty cheap. Well if it wasn't the airlines could not afford it.

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#2472342 - 12/25/11 03:29 AM Re: What problems using kerosene in a diesel? [Re: Shaman]
Exhaustgases Offline


Registered: 12/18/11
Posts: 22
Loc: kirkland, wa
Can't be higher temps. Why kerosene has a lower heat value than diesel.
I have run diesel engines on it many times in the past.

I was trying to quote the fellow that said it would run hotter.


Edited by Exhaustgases (12/25/11 03:30 AM)

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#2472362 - 12/25/11 06:22 AM Re: What problems using kerosene in a diesel? [Re: Shaman]
Shaman Offline


Registered: 07/27/04
Posts: 2298
Loc: Frankfort, Kentucky
Wife mentioned that co2 output would increase using k1. She said that is how they "dip" here in Japan.

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#2472636 - 12/25/11 03:43 PM Re: What problems using kerosene in a diesel? [Re: Exhaustgases]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26818
Loc: a prison island
Originally Posted By: Exhaustgases
Kerosene should be pretty cheap. Well if it wasn't the airlines could not afford it.


Because it's a "heating" product, there's no road taxes on it. As to airlines, there's an international "treaty" that transport taxes don't apply to aviation kerosene.

It's still hideously expensive downunder 'though.

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#2473773 - 12/27/11 06:27 AM Re: What problems using kerosene in a diesel? [Re: Shaman]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 4185
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
I run my diesels on kero (jet A1). I sent off samples for testing. The HFRR wear testing was quite informative.

1) straight kero did not have enough lubricity, with a wear scar number around 650.

2) Adding Stanadyne lubricity additive, as directed, brought the number down to a more reasonable level, around the maximum value allowed for diesel (around 450). Safe? Not really.

3) Adding a double dose of Stanadyne lubricity additive and 100 to 1 Penzoil outboard engine oil brought the wear scar number down to 255, a very good number. This is the mix I use. It's clean running, it lubricates pumps and injectors very well and there are no internal engine wear issues.

I've been doing this for many years now. It works in any conventional diesel. However, I'd never do this in a modern, emission controlled engine. Mostly due to high sulfur content.



Edited by Cujet (12/27/11 06:28 AM)
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#2473794 - 12/27/11 07:29 AM Re: What problems using kerosene in a diesel? [Re: Shaman]
Shaman Offline


Registered: 07/27/04
Posts: 2298
Loc: Frankfort, Kentucky
YOu didn't happen to test your emissions did you? Great info on the scar numbers, thanks for posting.

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#2504048 - 01/24/12 08:34 AM Re: What problems using kerosene in a diesel? [Re: bullwinkle]
TiredTrucker Offline


Registered: 01/04/08
Posts: 1015
Loc: Kellogg, IA
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Lubricity is definitely lower, as is energy value (especially in summer). Here in the USA there is no road usage tax on kerosene, but it will work fine in diesel, especially if 2-stroke oil is added to get the lubricity up.


Really? 2-cycle oil will up the lubricity considerably? Not according to this study...

http://www.natbiogroup.com/docs/education/lubricity%20additive%20study%20results.pdf
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#2524923 - 02/04/12 05:04 AM Re: What problems using kerosene in a diesel? [Re: Shaman]
CDX825 Offline


Registered: 10/04/09
Posts: 107
Loc: Litchfield, Ohio
I find that test a bit off. Most people who run 2 cycle oil run it stronger than 200:1

All the people Ive ever talked to about it run 128:1
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#2553398 - 03/01/12 12:40 PM Re: What problems using kerosene in a diesel? [Re: Shaman]
HerrStig Offline


Registered: 08/24/11
Posts: 3009
Loc: Boston, MA
Interesting lack of performance from MMO and Lucas mouse milk in the study.
Several years ago the Brit Top Gear guys raced a diesel BMW in an endurance race in the UK. Half way through they blew up a fuel pump. THEN they admitted they were using a "fuel mix" which contained a fair amount of methonal. Alcohol apparently does little good for TDI fuel pumps.


Edited by HerrStig (03/01/12 12:41 PM)

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#2589224 - 04/04/12 07:34 AM Re: What problems using kerosene in a diesel? [Re: TiredTrucker]
Cujet Offline


Registered: 02/15/03
Posts: 4185
Loc: Jupiter, Florida
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
[quote=bullwinkle]
Really? 2-cycle oil will up the lubricity considerably? Not according to this study...http://www.natbiogroup.com/docs/education/lubricity%20additive%20study%20results.pdf


That study shows that a comparatively tiny quantity of the cheapest 2 stroke oil makes a huge difference. A 0.5% concentration results in a 162 micron improvement. At the tested 200/1 ratio, the cost is mere pennies per tankful.

My tests were done with Penzoil TCW-III Semi Synthetic Premium outboard oil at 100 to 1, a better oil, at twice the ratio. Plus I also used a double dose of Stanadyne Lubricity additive.

I spoke with the HFRR rig tech, he has been doing diesel fuel testing for years. Hence the 3 samples I sent in. They were not my original "guesses" but rather suggestions from the tech, tailored to my engines' needs.

It was his way of showing me what was required to make Jet-A work properly in a precision diesel. You know what? He was right. It took significant additives to make Jet-A meet the requirements.

FYI, there was some discussion between us about the film strength of the 2 stroke oil preventing metal to metal contact and that the Stanadyne product helps prevent scaring when that film strength is insufficient. It was his contention that they were somewhat different in modes of protection.
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#2598426 - 04/13/12 09:38 AM Re: What problems using kerosene in a diesel? [Re: Shaman]
Stephen_G Offline


Registered: 04/12/12
Posts: 406
Loc: Mount Holly New Jersey
When i was in the USAF we had several trucks that were certified to run on JP4 (JetB) JP8 (JetA) and Diesel, only thing it said was, performance on jet fuel was lower by a little bit, like top speed was 2mph slower than the diesel only one.

Diesel has to meet cetane requirements, which is similar to octane in gasoline

Kerosene has to have no sulfur due to it being a heating fuel (imangine the smell)

Jet Fuel has to have more additives and meets stricter requirements for water than Diesel and Kero, but has next to none for sulfur.

If you are going to run Kero in a diesel, ensure you put a gal of diesel in to ensure you get some sulfur into it for the fuel pump, new diesels are not as picky for the sulfur as they are designed for ultra low sulfur diesel, but older ones are very picky, read up on the GM 350 Diesel and the fuel pump problems due to ULSD. Use at your own risk.

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#2599970 - 04/15/12 05:39 AM Re: What problems using kerosene in a diesel? [Re: JHZR2]
Shannow Online   content


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 26818
Loc: a prison island
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Kerosine ha a different viscosity characteristic - not necessarily good for moving parts. Believe the aromatics may have been all removed too.


Yeah, back in the day, we used to fill industrial gearboxes with kero and "lap" the gears in under very light load.

aromatics aren't very good in an inside lamp/heater.

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