Take a look at this marine engine oil discussion and particularly the treatise by the poster "Wingnut" on the first page.
http://forum.chaparralboats.com/index.php?showtopic=13471
http://forum.chaparralboats.com/index.php?showtopic=13471
Marine engine oil discussion
- Thread starter ledslinger
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we need to make Wingnut a member over here! I read the entire page ...VERY interesting!
JHZR2
Staff member
Agree with Wingnut. You'd be amazed at how muchg Texaco Ursa 15w-40 and SAE 40 my FIL sells to the powerboat guys... pleasure and business.
Wow.. this guy earns the propeller head cap for the week!!
Very well explained. No hocus pocus. Very readable. This guy knows his material.
The marine engines are just marine-ized versions of common GM engines.
(not sure of the diesel engine source).
Water cooled exhaust manifolds, a colder thermostat (160º) and a special no-spark accessories. The carburetors on old engines were set on the rich side as is the mapping for the fuel injection used on current units.
The internal clearances may or maynot be larger.
(not sure of the diesel engine source).
Water cooled exhaust manifolds, a colder thermostat (160º) and a special no-spark accessories. The carburetors on old engines were set on the rich side as is the mapping for the fuel injection used on current units.
The internal clearances may or maynot be larger.
I can assure you that in the case of GM motors used in most domestic boats the clearances are exactly as any other. Matter of fact, there are no internal differences at all.
The term "marine" as used for boats just means more money!
The term "marine" as used for boats just means more money!
When GM or Ford sells an engine to a company which will equip it for marine use, it likely has no part on it that wasn't ever used in non marine applications. They are crate or industrial engines intended for a variety of potential uses, chippers, hot rods, pumps etc. I have never heard of looser or special tolerances for marine engines. Marine racing engines could have some unique specs, since no other racing I can think of runs engines as close to peak output for as long as offshore racing boats.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
I can assure you that in the case of GM motors used in most domestic boats the clearances are exactly as any other. Matter of fact, there are no internal differences at all.
The term "marine" as used for boats just means more money!
Same with the Ford ones. My Mercruiser "888" was just a stock 302 with 351 heads, 2V intake with a baby Holley and a marine cam and manifolds. Then engine itself was just a plain old Windsor.
I can assure you that in the case of GM motors used in most domestic boats the clearances are exactly as any other. Matter of fact, there are no internal differences at all.
The term "marine" as used for boats just means more money!
Same with the Ford ones. My Mercruiser "888" was just a stock 302 with 351 heads, 2V intake with a baby Holley and a marine cam and manifolds. Then engine itself was just a plain old Windsor.
I have a friend that has owned his boat for about 25 years its a 1961 Pearson, and has gone thru a few of motors. Not from neglect, but due to heavy use.This current motor is a basicly a 350 cu in crate motor, with a four barrel. On this motor he said he was going to run it solely on synthetic oil,with 100 hour oil changes with 20/50 wt Pennsoil if I recall. He fishes the boat heavy, hours of trolling and when running it's at 3200 rpms pretty constantly. Last fall when I went slumming at his marina and I asked him how the boat was running, and how many hours are on the clock.He said great and get this 2580 hours on a gas motor with no repairs or rebuilds of anything.I feel the key to longevity on boats is to use them alot, and keep to a regular maintenance schedule. Like changing manifolds and risers at 5-6 years instead of waiting for them to fail and then only changing one side. Oil changes and a few new parts now and then are cheaper then new motors now and then.,,
In my world 2850 is about 1/2 of what I consider good...
99 1/2 % of private boats motors never make it to half of 2850, even when they have top end work done. Bad water pumps and leaking exhaust manifolds usally do them in.,,
Agreed, Cahuna, Car motors used at high loads for long periods of time (like they are in boats) have a much shorter life. 2,000 hours is a lot, and many have worn out/failed before that time. As I am involved in a commercial marine operation, I often hear the comment "mine blew at 1100 hours, due to a freak event" and otherwise would have lasted a long time.
But, it didn't!!
But, it didn't!!
I'm a marine mechanic, mainly inboard ski boats. I can't think of a single incidence of an inboard motor in my lake community that has ever worn out. If they need major repair, they were usually overheated or block cracked due to freezing.
Same here. I have owned a bunch of go-fast types with built up motors and I still get good life out of them. But then again, many boat owners just ignore their boat until they want to use it.
I'll get more than 2000 hours out of my current motor, an 850 hp supercharged stroker Chevy. And it does see some high speeds...
I'll get more than 2000 hours out of my current motor, an 850 hp supercharged stroker Chevy. And it does see some high speeds...
Steve, Yesterday I did coolant flush and tranny oil change on my buddies 48 Fountain Express. With 3 44O Yanmars, that was an all day job. Tell me about your boat.
Short story: Marine engines are often related to car/industry eninges but different!
Now, most boaters do less than 100 hrs per year, at 2850hrs and avg 75 hrs you have 38 years of boating. 2850 hrs is a long life on a recreational boat, but they will generally die from other causes like corrosion. Expect at least 1500 hrs if you do maintenance, more if you have a all dry engine room.
About "exactly like a car/crate engine", some, not all, is true. The block and some other stuff is usually the same. But as you said, the cams, the exhausts, the cooling setup and lots of other parts are just not available, or the same, in the volume car engnies.
Then you have stuff that is security related: Generator, starter and other electricals that just can't be allowed to make a spark in the enginge bay of a boat. In a car, no problem, but in a boat: NO.
So in short: A complete marine engine ex drive is like $20k here and a replacement long block is $5k plus reassembly here. So, the marine stuff including warranties and Volvo profit is $15k. But just the exhausts alone are $3k so you will quickly bury some cash even with a "free" block when adding water pumps, gens, tubing, injection etc.
I got non boat savvy friends that "got a nice big boat really cheap, the only things missing were the engines... and drives.. and controls... and props.... But junk yard engines are almost free" I still laugh when driving by.
Oilwise, the fact that the block itself is like an old chevy does not make it sensible to run fuel saving, low cost 5w30. The engine will require thicker oil that can take more abuse in a WOT marine situation. But of course, if a friend got 10000 hrs with 200 oci and prius engine oil, that's a safe bet too! *joke*
Now, most boaters do less than 100 hrs per year, at 2850hrs and avg 75 hrs you have 38 years of boating. 2850 hrs is a long life on a recreational boat, but they will generally die from other causes like corrosion. Expect at least 1500 hrs if you do maintenance, more if you have a all dry engine room.
About "exactly like a car/crate engine", some, not all, is true. The block and some other stuff is usually the same. But as you said, the cams, the exhausts, the cooling setup and lots of other parts are just not available, or the same, in the volume car engnies.
Then you have stuff that is security related: Generator, starter and other electricals that just can't be allowed to make a spark in the enginge bay of a boat. In a car, no problem, but in a boat: NO.
So in short: A complete marine engine ex drive is like $20k here and a replacement long block is $5k plus reassembly here. So, the marine stuff including warranties and Volvo profit is $15k. But just the exhausts alone are $3k so you will quickly bury some cash even with a "free" block when adding water pumps, gens, tubing, injection etc.
I got non boat savvy friends that "got a nice big boat really cheap, the only things missing were the engines... and drives.. and controls... and props.... But junk yard engines are almost free" I still laugh when driving by.
Oilwise, the fact that the block itself is like an old chevy does not make it sensible to run fuel saving, low cost 5w30. The engine will require thicker oil that can take more abuse in a WOT marine situation. But of course, if a friend got 10000 hrs with 200 oci and prius engine oil, that's a safe bet too! *joke*
I'm sitting here reading through Wingnuts post as I'm coming up to where I need to buy the oil to do my annual change.
I can't help but notice he has a few of the "typical" misconceptions about motor oil. One that caught my attention was "20w50" being "20 weight in winter" and "50 weight at temperature".
There were a few other things he mentioned. The specs he listed for M1 15w50 are actually missing pieces of information... he has the 100C visc listed as 5.6cSt for 15w50... among other things.
I suggest that people read his post a little more closely as he may come off sounding intelligent on that board but even my amateur eyes spotted multiple inconsistencies, half-truths, etc.
I can't help but notice he has a few of the "typical" misconceptions about motor oil. One that caught my attention was "20w50" being "20 weight in winter" and "50 weight at temperature".
There were a few other things he mentioned. The specs he listed for M1 15w50 are actually missing pieces of information... he has the 100C visc listed as 5.6cSt for 15w50... among other things.
I suggest that people read his post a little more closely as he may come off sounding intelligent on that board but even my amateur eyes spotted multiple inconsistencies, half-truths, etc.
I got into a spirited debate with him when he claimed an HDEO would produce a perfect glitter storm in the engine and cause pre detonation and other engine wear. Good writer - yes. All knowing -not so sure.
Most marine engines die of old age long before they rack up enough hours to wear out.
I don't see why a straight 30/40 or a dino 15w40 would not be applicable for most marine applications. I have never seen a marine engine do bad with such an oil.
I don't see why a straight 30/40 or a dino 15w40 would not be applicable for most marine applications. I have never seen a marine engine do bad with such an oil.
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