Rotella T6

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan

Rotellas
There are a lot of things that affect wear protection. A balanced antiwear and friction-modifier package is one of them. HTHS viscosity is also very important, larger being better. I prefer 15W-40 for that reason because it has a substantially higher HTHS viscosity than 5W-40.
Regarding xW-40 weight oil, you can use it virtually in any engine. It will reduce fuel economy with respect to xW-20 and xW-30 on the downside. It has superior wear protection (increased film strength, especially important for bearings) than thinner viscosities. Higher HTHS viscosity simply means higher oil-film strength. 15W-40 works very well in my gasoline engine and is the standard for diesel engines.

For newer engines you probably don't need to sacrifice fuel economy for slightly enhanced wear protection, unless you're doing a lot of high-speed, high-acceleration, and/or high-temperature driving, which could result in a lot of wear with xW-20 or even xW-30 if that is the case for your driving conditions.

Your misunderstanding of HTHS viscosity I find quite alarming.
A higher HTHS viscosity is definately NOT alway better.
The higher the HTHS viscosity of an oil the thicker the oil, and the thicker the oil the slower the oil's flow.

The old lubrication maxium always applies in chosing the correct viscosity; " as light as possible, as thick as necessary".

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Your misunderstanding of HTHS viscosity I find quite alarming.

Free information and blogs, forums, and such on the Internet is all about misunderstandings. This forum here is certainly full of misleading and junk information and advice from Internet experts. Some of this junk information is even posted in the articles section of this site.

See what I posted in the other thread and decide for yourself which one of us is right. Or let the others be the judge.

 

[Bambam]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Your misunderstanding of HTHS viscosity I find quite alarming.

Free information and blogs, forums, and such on the Internet is all about misunderstandings. This forum here is certainly full of misleading and junk information and advice from Internet experts. Some of this junk information is even posted in the articles section of this site.

See what I posted in the other thread and decide for yourself which one of us is right. Or let the others be the judge.

So from now on,what you say is the absolute?

 

[dbrowne1]

Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Stating that Rotella T6 has no friction modifiers is incorrect. It does in fact contain some Mo-DTC, usually showing between 50 and 100ppm.


T6 does have a fairly typical dose of moly:

T6 VOA

The older "Rotella T Synthetic" formula that T6 has now replaced did not have moly:

Rotella T Syn VOA

All that being settled, the older formula performed very well and its lack of moly appears to have not been any issue at all. It often turned in better wear metal results than PAO-based synthetics with moly.

So the idea that the moly is needed to reduce friction doesn't seem to hold water. GC is another example of a moly-less oil that does very well.

 

[Gokhan]

I guess as long as it's not Mobil 1, it has good wear protection. LOL Joke aside, Mobil 1 even fails the minimum API wear-protection requirements. See this link.

Yes, I agree that Rotella T6 is a very good oil. If I was living in a colder climate, I would be using it instead of Delvac. I might try it in the future.

It seems to have more viscosity-index improvers (VIIs) than the dino 15W-40 but that is probably what is helping the wear protection. Lack of viscosity-index improvers (don't know if this is the case) might be what is hurting Mobil 1.

While VIIs (more the low-quality kinds) might shear and cause kinematic and HTHS viscosity loss, they do increase oil-film thickness for a given HTHS viscosity, compensating lower HTHS viscosity of 5W-40s (~ 3.8) with respect to those of 15W-40s (~ 4.3). A still-thick oil film then doesn't increase wear, and fuel economy is also improved because the HTHS viscosity is lowered, without thinning the oil film. See Page 50, Figure 4, and related text of this ASTM paper regarding this. This also means that a multigrade oil has higher wear protection than a single-grade oil of the same HTHS viscosity.

 

[Sierra048]

I have a 2005 Nissan Xterra that specs for 5W30 as a preferred oil viscosity. I can also use 10W30 or 10W40 above 0F. Would Rotella 5W40 be a good choice for hot Georgia summers?

 

[BobFout]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I guess as long as it's not Mobil 1, it has good wear protection. LOL Joke aside, Mobil 1 even fails the minimum API wear-protection requirements. See this link.


Is this a recent article?

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
I guess as long as it's not Mobil 1, it has good wear protection. LOL Joke aside, Mobil 1 even fails the minimum API wear-protection requirements. See this link.
Is this a recent article?

Summer 2008. Pertains to Mobil 1 GF-4/SM, which has just started being phased out (saw an SN bottle for the first time last week). New formulation might have more VIIs, Group III basestocks, and new additive packages and might do better on the wear tests. Who knows.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: Mfrank84
I have a 2005 Nissan Xterra that specs for 5W30 as a preferred oil viscosity. I can also use 10W30 or 10W40 above 0F. Would Rotella 5W40 be a good choice for hot Georgia summers?

Yes, 5W-40 has roughly the same HTHS viscosity (~ 3.8) as 10W-40, which is recommended in your manual. Since, unlike 10W-40, it also has 5W- cold viscosity, you can use it year around in all climates, including in the northern states.

It will decrease your fuel economy by about 1 MPG with respect to 5W-30 (HTHS viscosity ~ 3.1), as the fuel economy directly relates to HTHS viscosity. It will also result in a few percent less horsepower.

It will provide a thicker oil film though and your engine might benefit from less wear depending on engine design and operating conditions. Some engines show little wear even with the smallest HTHS viscosities such as 2.6, as their clearances and geometry of the wear surfaces do not require a thick oil film. Good filtration can also reduce the need for a thick oil film, as smaller the contaminants in the oil are, less likely for them to rub the metal surfaces separated by the thickness of the oil film.

So, it's your call. Choosing the viscosity can be subtle and is usually a compromise.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: dbrowne1
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Stating that Rotella T6 has no friction modifiers is incorrect. It does in fact contain some Mo-DTC, usually showing between 50 and 100ppm.


T6 does have a fairly typical dose of moly:

T6 VOA

The older "Rotella T Synthetic" formula that T6 has now replaced did not have moly:

Rotella T Syn VOA

All that being settled, the older formula performed very well and its lack of moly appears to have not been any issue at all. It often turned in better wear metal results than PAO-based synthetics with moly.

So the idea that the moly is needed to reduce friction doesn't seem to hold water. GC is another example of a moly-less oil that does very well.


Really enjoyed the points you brought out, and might I add: Moly isn't the only way to accomplish anti-wear and anti-friction.

Just sayin...

 

[dbrowne1]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
Originally Posted By: dbrowne1
Originally Posted By: chevrofreak
Stating that Rotella T6 has no friction modifiers is incorrect. It does in fact contain some Mo-DTC, usually showing between 50 and 100ppm.


T6 does have a fairly typical dose of moly:

T6 VOA

The older "Rotella T Synthetic" formula that T6 has now replaced did not have moly:

Rotella T Syn VOA

All that being settled, the older formula performed very well and its lack of moly appears to have not been any issue at all. It often turned in better wear metal results than PAO-based synthetics with moly.

So the idea that the moly is needed to reduce friction doesn't seem to hold water. GC is another example of a moly-less oil that does very well.


Really enjoyed the points you brought out, and might I add: Moly isn't the only way to accomplish anti-wear and anti-friction.

Just sayin...


That was sort of my point.

 

[ltslimjim]

^Emphasis!

 

[Quattro Pete]

Looks like WalMart (at least the one near me) jacked up the prices on all Rotella products.

 

[mongo161]

I noticed the same thing on the Rotella prices while in Orlando, FL. The prices of all the Diesel Oils were up and I thought it may have been a short term issue.

However, I found an excellent price on the Kendall Super-D xa, Premium Synthetic Blend Diesel Engine Oil with Liquid Titanium in 15w40. I picked up 2 gallons at a "Flying J" truck-stop, on I-95, outside of Crescent Beach on my way to Jacksonville, FL for a day trip.

I will save these two gallons, along with the Shell Rotella T6, for use during the winter in NYC.

 

[turbodieselfreak]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Looks like WalMart (at least the one near me) jacked up the prices on all Rotella products.
What were they charging? A few weeks back I saw t6 on sale at meijer for 17.99. I was well stocked but grabbed a jug anyway at that price. They're back up to 20.99 locally today, but that's still better than wallyword in my area and much better than farm n' fleet.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: turbodieselfreak
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Looks like WalMart (at least the one near me) jacked up the prices on all Rotella products.
What were they charging?

They used to charge $19.50. Now it's $20.58.

 

[harrydog]

Originally Posted By: turbodieselfreak
A few weeks back I saw t6 on sale at meijer for 17.99. I was well stocked but grabbed a jug anyway at that price. They're back up to 20.99 locally today, but that's still better than wallyword in my area and much better than farm n' fleet.

Meijer has had T6 for $17.99 for quite a while, at least around here, and it was still that price last week. I'll have to check to see if it's gone up.

 

[TrackerTracker]

Rotella T6 (and all Rotella oils for that matter) are NOT recommended for use in gas engines having cat converters. This comes direct from Rotellas tech department (I have the e-mail they sent me today). Here's what they say:

"Dear Sir,
You should always follow the viscosity recommendations in your owner's manual. Please note that Rotella oils are not recommended for gasoline vehicles with catalytic converters.
Best Regards,
Shell Technical"

Reason why is the high Phosphorous level. New ILSEC standards want P levels down to 800 ppm or lower to preserve cat life. Rotella chose not to do it since their customer base is the diesel community.

So...are we democrats or republicans? If we are Democrats we will ignore technical advice that comes direct from the oil producer and continue to use an oil that is not recommended for use in our gas engines having cat converters because that's what democrats do...ignore facts. If we are conservatives, we acknowledge facts, even in this case if they happen to be facts we would not otherwise like to hear, and we will discontinue using T6 in our gas engines with cat converters. What say you in the oil community????

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: TrackerTracker
Reason why is the high Phosphorous level. New ILSEC standards want P levels down to 800 ppm or lower to preserve cat life. Rotella chose not to do it since their customer base is the diesel community.

A 40 grade cannot be ILSAC rated in any event. Nonetheless, if that's how Shell wishes to market Rotella, so be it. Contrast their statement to Mobil's TDS on Mobil Delvac 1 ESP 5w-40, where "high performance gasoline engines" are listed under applications.

 

[stranger706]

Originally Posted By: TrackerTracker
Rotella T6 (and all Rotella oils for that matter) are NOT recommended for use in gas engines having cat converters. This comes direct from Rotellas tech department (I have the e-mail they sent me today). Here's what they say:

"Dear Sir,
You should always follow the viscosity recommendations in your owner's manual. Please note that Rotella oils are not recommended for gasoline vehicles with catalytic converters.
Best Regards,
Shell Technical"

Reason why is the high Phosphorous level. New ILSEC standards want P levels down to 800 ppm or lower to preserve cat life. Rotella chose not to do it since their customer base is the diesel community.

So...are we democrats or republicans? If we are Democrats we will ignore technical advice that comes direct from the oil producer and continue to use an oil that is not recommended for use in our gas engines having cat converters because that's what democrats do...ignore facts. If we are conservatives, we acknowledge facts, even in this case if they happen to be facts we would not otherwise like to hear, and we will discontinue using T6 in our gas engines with cat converters. What say you in the oil community????


Are you going to dig up all the old Rotella posts and dispute them?