Forward to SN or back to SL

[Danh]

Would appreciate opinions on this topic. I have a 1999 Acura 3.2 TL with 85,000 miles. The oil originally specified by Honda was SJ 5w/30.

It has has a steady diet of Mobil 1 5w/30 since new, progressing from SJ to SL and SM. It runs great and neither burns nor leaks oil.

With SN now appearing, I'm wondering if I should switch to Mobil 1 high mileage, which is SL rated. I don't think it necessarily needs HM's extra cleaning power and seal conditioners, but wonder if SN's further reduction in things like ZDDP would make sticking to SL a safer bet.

The real answer, I suppose is that it doesn't really matter, but that's why we're here, right?

Incidentally, on Mobil's check mark comparison on the bottle, HM gets an extra check compared to "normal" SN Mobil 1 for high temperature protection. Curious, isn't it?

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[demarpaint]

I'm not overly impressed with SN, after looking at the available PDS sheets. Flame suit on! Lets see how the UOA reports are. Having said that, SL, SM, or SN will work fine in your Honda. Grab what ever is the cheapest.

 

[Brons2]

IIRC, SN does not call for a further ZDDP reduction over SM. I really don't think you can go wrong either way.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I switched to Mobil 1 HM because I wanted a synthetic 10W40. My car is not a high mileage car. It`s the smoothest oil I`ve ever used. I`ll use the HM 10W30 during the winter and the HM 10W40 during the spring/summer.

 

[d00df00d]

If all it needs is SJ and no additional specs or approvals, you're fine with anything more recent than SJ -- in fact, the more recent, the better. That's how the API specs are designed.


If you're worried about lower ZDDP limits, keep a few things in mind:

1. API SM and SN compensate for lower ZDDP limits with tougher anti-wear testing.
2. Newer additive technology allows a certain amount of ZDDP to go farther -- or else simply replaces it with something better.
3. Hondas tend to be REALLY easy on oil, so you probably don't need a huge amount of ZDDP anyway.
4. With ZDDP, you want as little as possible, and only as much as necessary.


If I were in your position, I would look for an API SM or SN oil for sure. Pennzoil Ultra 5w-30, Mobil 1 AFE 0w-30, and Mobil 1 ESP 5w-30 would be my top choices, at least out of what's on the shelf. I wouldn't bother with high mileage oils unless I suspected a problem that a high mileage oil might help address.

 

[Mr Nice]

SN rated oil is just fine for that Acura

 

[Spyder7]

My Toyota is SJ rated too, and no issues with the only SN oil I've run so far (PYB). I see no worries with SN rated oils, although your alternative of Mobil HM seems fine too. IMHO both are fine choices.

-Spyder

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm not overly impressed with SN, after looking at the available PDS sheets. Flame suit on! Lets see how the UOA reports are. Having said that, SL, SM, or SN will work fine in your Honda. Grab what ever is the cheapest.

Serious question - what about SN oil doesn't impress you?
Personally I haven't been in a big rush to try the latest/greatest. I still have a few jugs of SM and of course will use those first. One of my Walmarts still had some Mobil SM left and I think some Pennzoil Yellow bottle. Maybe I'll go stock up if they are still there!

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I switched to Mobil 1 HM because I wanted a synthetic 10W40. My car is not a high mileage car. It`s the smoothest oil I`ve ever used. I`ll use the HM 10W30 during the winter and the HM 10W40 during the spring/summer.
10w-30 in the winter and 10w-40 in the summer in S . Texas??? What do you not understand about syn oils that give you the idea you need to switch viscosities for the seasons. Reading the internet you should be learning stuff about oil.

 

[Ken2]

It is the ILSAC categories that determine things like the ZDDP level, not API. For example, a 15W-40 dual rated diesel and gasoline engine oil with the API Service Categories CJ-4 and SN can have phosphorus up to 0.12%. No, I'm not recommending this oil for your car.

ILSAC GF-5, the new rating, has the same phosphorus level as ILSAC GF-4, 0.08%. They keep the phosphorus out of the catcon (and in the engine) by reducing the oil's volatility.

The newer oils are better. The car companies demand that--they're the ones on the hook for warranty costs, including the extended service contracts they sell.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

I see your concern here. I do feel though if you use M1 5/30 HM your car will be fine. The M1 HM line is a very stout oil as a whole package. Don't just concentrate on one aspect of the oil. Look at the "whole" package. The M1 HM line will suit your car just fine.

Jeff

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I switched to Mobil 1 HM because I wanted a synthetic 10W40. My car is not a high mileage car. It`s the smoothest oil I`ve ever used. I`ll use the HM 10W30 during the winter and the HM 10W40 during the spring/summer.
10w-30 in the winter and 10w-40 in the summer in S . Texas??? What do you not understand about syn oils that give you the idea you need to switch viscosities for the seasons. Reading the internet you should be learning stuff about oil.


I'm not getting your point on how synthetic use somehow rules out a seasonal viscosity change.

I run 5W30 synthetic in winter (only because 0W30 is so hard to find here at a decent price) and will be running 10W30 synthetic this summer (from a stash I hoarded last summer when it was cheap).

Granted this isn't S. Texas, but I would also consider a thinner 5W40 synthetic in summer too. Reason for changing viscosity in different seasons, synthetic or no, is simple for me: 0W30 or 5W30 will circulate faster in winter cold starts, while in the summer I'm not concerned with that, but more interested in the higher HTHS score the 10W30 has over its 5W30 counterpart.

Since mine burns some oil, and burns more in the middle to end part of the OCI (as the oil sheers and thins out, making it easier to get past the oil control rings that are the culprit in the burn off), I expect the 10W30 - again synthetic or not - to better resist sheering, and therefore not burn off as quickly during that part of the OCI.

-Spyder

 

[steve20]

I know what you mean that is why I choose PYB straight 30 weight in the lawn tractor--it's easy to find and still SL rated

 

[Rob_Roy]

Continue with your 5w30 viscosity, and don't fear the SN rating.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I'm not overly impressed with SN, after looking at the available PDS sheets. Flame suit on! Lets see how the UOA reports are. Having said that, SL, SM, or SN will work fine in your Honda. Grab what ever is the cheapest.

Serious question - what about SN oil doesn't impress you?
Personally I haven't been in a big rush to try the latest/greatest. I still have a few jugs of SM and of course will use those first. One of my Walmarts still had some Mobil SM left and I think some Pennzoil Yellow bottle. Maybe I'll go stock up if they are still there!


The few PDS sheets that I've seen I really don't think there was any major improvement in wear reduction, which was something I was looking forward too. Edge 0W20 for example which I really like appears, to have stepped backwards. I'm not worried about keeping an engine clean, it was never a problem for me, and SM oil changed at a sensible interval works fine. My comments are based on my feelings and nothing more. All the hype leading up to the change and it really wasn't anything major, IMO.

I agree with you, no rush here to try the latest and the greatest either. Lets see some UOA reports maybe then I'll change my mind. I'm not rushing out to stock pile SM oil either, I'll go with the flow.

 

[A_Harman]

Your engine will do fine on either. SN is a step up from SM in that the new spec has a requirement for increased Phosphorous retention. You can feel more comfortable putting SN in your crankcase than trying to stick with SM oils.

I like the way M1 HM 5w30 is performing in my Camaro. I'm at 5500 miles in this OCI, and just added 1/2-quart before going out to a track day on Saturday. (The car turned over 160,000 miles on the track.) On regular M1 5w30, my oil consumption was more like 1/2 quart in 4000 miles. I don't normally add oil until the level gets 1/2 quart low.

My recommendation would be for the HM.

 

[TFB1]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
I wouldn't bother with high mileage oils unless I suspected a problem that a high mileage oil might help address.


well if you believe the advertising, one should start using HM oil at 75K mi, the idea is to stop problems from occurring not cure existing issues... That said I'd consider it for any car that had 85-90Kmi and were over 10 years old, time deteriorates seals probably as much as mileage...

 

[ahoier]

yea, I don't quite believe the "high mileage" hype. How can you consider 75k "high mileage" when we got vehicles lasting 300k? Granted, not "many" lasting that long, but we still have seen vehicles last that....


But then again, I may have misunderstood, I thought the whole idea of HM was to use it when you start experiencing oil burn off, leaking, etc...not "before" it happens.


Wouldn't it be like putting Bars Leaks into a radiator that isn't leaking, wouldn't it? As if it's just sitting in there, waiting for a leak to spring open? lol. Well...maybe that's a little off-base...but eh....



Reminds me of the old-timers who use that "SLIME" stuff in their tires/tubes, etc...heeh


Anyways, back on track, nah, I'd say go ahead with the SM/SN oils.....as long as it's SJ or greater, you're good to go. Unless it's like an 80s era vehicle....I'd say go for the SM or SN.....this weekend I was recommended to use "SL" or priro grade, due to the decrease in ZDDP in the "newer" oils....but it's a hunt finding "older" product....unless you go scouring through older "convenience store" re-badged oil product(s) (i.e.: maybe STP, Kangaroo Express, etc. "quick e mart" branded oils" lol).....

lol, my car calls for "SF"....but afaik, I have the "roller cams" - not the flat tappets that seem to be the big hub-bub with the ZDDP craze....

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: TFB1
well if you believe the advertising, one should start using HM oil at 75K mi, the idea is to stop problems from occurring not cure existing issues...

You're right. Good point.

When I said "unless I suspected a problem," I meant to include having a reason to believe that such a problem might arise. It doesn't always, and when it does, a high mileage oil can't always prevent or fix it.


Originally Posted By: TFB1
That said I'd consider it for any car that had 85-90Kmi and were over 10 years old, time deteriorates seals probably as much as mileage...

Fair point.