Modern lyrical gems vs mainstream garbage?

[OVERKILL]

I watched two particular videos today on Youtube that made me think.

1. Hedley - Old School
2. Katy Perry - E.T.

Kayne West (not a fan) has a "rap" part (again... not a fan) in Katy's video where he rambles some garbage with excessive use of autotune while holding his crotch.

Originally Posted By: Kayne West
I got a dirty mind, I got filthy ways, I'm trying to *something* in your milky way. I'm a legend, I'm your reverend, I be revin' I be so far up we don't give a *beep*. Welcome to the danger zone, step into the fantasy, you and I invited to the other side of sanity. They callin' me a alien, a big headed astronaut, maybe cuz your boy he be gettin' a$$ a lot."


The Hedley song (yes, different genre) just has so much more "value" to me. Like there was actual thought put into the lyrics.

Originally Posted By: Hedley

Don't believe everything happiness is, nothing feels better than hiding these days. We bury our fears in the drinks and these tears for the days we believed we could fly.

Call up your brothers and sisters and friends. We'll go back to place where the night never ends. We'll remember the fires, the burning car tires, boy how in the [censored] we'd get here?

So why don't you meet me down behind our old school, we'll waste away the weekend with perfect regard for how cavalier we used to be; that beautiful insanity, the apathy surrounding me don't close your eyes or we'll fade..... Away.

Over and over and over again. We sat down for a minute, grew up into men. Now we're putting out fires and changing car tires, man how in the [censored] we'd get here?

So why don't you meet me down behind our old school, we'll waste away the weekend with perfect regard for how cavalier we used to be; that beautiful insanity, the apathy surrounding me don't close your eyes or we'll fade away this time. And we'll never get back what we gave away. When we still had the fire in our eyes.

Don't believe everything happiness is, nothing's as real as our old reckless ways, when we drink by the fires, the burning car tires, bad girls and good liars, the dreams we conspired, the days we went crazy, the nights wide(?) and hazy, man how in the [censored] we'd get here?

So why don't you meet me down behind our old school, we'll waste away the weekend with perfect regard for how cavalier we used to be; that beautiful insanity, the apathy surrounding me don't close your eyes or we'll fade.


These are as I heard them, I haven't gone to look up the lyrics. I think they are somewhat accurate.

I imagine Kayne West probably thinks Cavalier is a small GM car, LOL And I doubt the word "apathy" exists in his vocabulary. Just me guessing here of course. I could be wrong. He simply doesn't strike me as somebody with much between the ears.

Regardless, my point here was not about Kayne west, but the content of mainstream music. Perhaps we've been down this road before?

I can listen to a song that I feel has "value" in the lyrics over and over again. I find I get caught up in the emotion/message of the song, and so it doesn't seem repetitive. Empty music actually bothers me. If I hear a song on the radio and find it empty, I won't want to listen to it again. If it comes on, I'll change the station or put on a CD.

If music is a medium that is supposed to be used to convey a message from the artist to their audience, then what kind of (empty) message is garbage like Kayne West's ramblings (and most rap for that matter, though definitely not all of it, the same could be said for a lot of pop music as well) supposed to give us? That he's an idiot? Because that's the message I get.

Now, in that vein, I must say that the types of comments I read on youtube in response to these videos, if they are indicative of the education of the audience listening to this music (and with the millions of hits this video has, that's a scary thought) that the vast majority couldn't pass grade 6 English. And that is probably being generous. My 2 year old daughter forms more coherent sentences than most of these people.

So to get back to the music and the message, if the message is idiocy, and that message reverberates with the millions of Americans listening to it, then is this really part of the entire "dumbing down of society" that many of us fear?

Are we making "Idiocracy" a reality? Because at times, I feel that we are.

 

[greenaccord02]

Well, there have always been terrible lyrics about stuff that nobody cared about as well as terrible performers and groups. Even back in the day. And, just like today, there were people who loved these terrible lyrics and bands and girls who tore their shirts off for them. The thing is, all of the garbage gets washed away with time and nobody remembers it while the gems stand out and endure. So when we look back in history all we see are the gems and none of the trash, so the musical landscape always looks better in retrospect. Most of the lyrics of popular bands in the fifties and early sizties was absolute garbage, and some of it pretty risque garbage by contemporary standards, so that's nothing new, either.

I think the only time in history when almost everything that came on the radio was outstanding was from maybe '68-'71 or something like that. Except for that singular period in history, more than 75% of the stuff on the radio has always been trash.

And there have been some lyrical geniuses of rap music, too. If you dismiss whole genres of music, you're only shorting yourself. I used to say that I hated country music, but now I listen to it all the time. You just have to find the artists that you like and that can take a little while.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Well, there have always been terrible lyrics about stuff that nobody cared about as well as terrible performers and groups. Even back in the day. The thing is, all of the garbage gets washed away with time and nobody remembers it while the gems stand out and endure. I think the only time in history when almost everything that came on the radio was outstanding was from maybe '68-'71 or something like that. Except for that singular period in history, more than 75% of the stuff on the radio has always been trash.

And there have been some lyrical geniuses of rap music, too. If you dismiss whole genres of music, you're only shorting yourself. I used to say that I hated country music, but now I listen to it all the time. You just have to find the artists that you like and that can take a little while.


I don't completely hate rap. Just most of it. I find it is all about degrading women, sex and money. Oh and killing people, we can't forget that part. It strikes me as very "primitive" in many respects. I think this is simply a reflection of the attitudes/ideals of many of the people representing the genre, and not the genre itself.

I can stomach a fair bit of Eminem for example. I was also quite fond of Tupac Shakur, his lyrics sounded educated and very different from those of his peers. I also like a fair bit of Jay-Z, his music is VERY different from everybody else's. I don't necessarily like his singing, but he appears to be an intelligent/gifted individual that doesn't have to re-mix 80's songs and screw up the lyrics to make a buck.

But I find most of the genre empty.

As far as country goes, I'm a fan of Tim McGraw, Paul Brandt, Martina McBride, Faith Hill, Brooks & Dunn, Sarah Evans....etc.

Listening to Tim McGraw right now. Will probably follow it up with some Five Finger Death Punch and then some Metallica. Maybe some Mozart or Beethoven after that. I like music. But it has to have MEANING. Classical music can say so much without a single word.

 

[HTSS_TR]

You should not mention Vivaldi, Bach, Chopin, Mozart, Beethoven ... in the same thread contains the names like Eminem, Tupac Shakur, Jay-Z ... It is an insult to the great composers.

 

[greenaccord02]

You should jam some Cunninlynguists (search for their songs "mindstate" and "get ignorant" on youtube), Binary Star, DJ Kno and some of that stuff. It's a whole subculture of rap. Underground stuff. There is some lyrical content there that's rarely paralleled by any genre. As to why that stuff doesn't get airplay... well, that's another topic entirely.

Eminem's early stuff, like "Rock Bottom" was OUTSTANDING. Man, I used to jam that all the time. Some of Notorious BIG's stuff is great, too. That guy could weave a story like nobody's business. Greatest rapper of all time, in my opinion.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
You should not mention Vivaldi, Bach, Chopin, Mozart, Beethoven ... in the same thread contains the names like Eminem, Tupac Shakur, Jay-Z ... It is an insult to the great composers.


I listen to a VERY wide range of music.

If I'm in a thinking mood, I'll listen to classical. If I want to relax, typically country. If I'm angry, some sort of metal like FFDP or Metallica.

BTW, what do you think of the Hedley lyrics?

 

[HTSS_TR]

I listen mostly pre 90's music, my favorites are Pink Floyd, Eagles ... Hedley lyrics is good but the music is nothing to write home about, I like "For The Nights I Can't Remember".

 

[Spyder7]

I'm not a fan of much of the new stuff put out today - particularly rap/dance - partly because the sound is unappealing to my ear, while the lyrics are gibberish or completely unoriginal. Its really at a low - to me - when so much of the top 100 is a "remixed" (and ruined) popular song from another artist (who actually wrote the lyrics and original music).

Perhaps we are just giving away our age though. Growing up I went through my "metal head phase" (beginning with KISS, progressing to Metallica, and reaching its apogee with Slayer, before my tastes began to mellow).

I do like some of the stuff Eminem put out - rapper or no. In the few of his songs I like, the lyrics do make sense, and there is the same "angry" energy that much of the metal I liked contained (and with both, the lyrics and music are original and synergistic instead of ripped off or meaningless).

He is the exception though (and its only a couple of his songs I like). One of them was a collaboration with another (non-rap) artist, and his rap and energy blends (and contrasts) well with harmonies she provides.

-Spyder

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7
I'm not a fan of much of the new stuff put out today - particularly rap/dance - partly because the sound is unappealing to my ear, while the lyrics are gibberish or completely unoriginal. Its really at a low - to me - when so much of the top 100 is a "remixed" (and ruined) popular song from another artist (who actually wrote the lyrics and original music).

Perhaps we are just giving away our age though. Growing up I went through my "metal head phase" (beginning with KISS, progressing to Metallica, and reaching its apogee with Slayer, before my tastes began to mellow).

I do like some of the stuff Eminem put out - rapper or no. In the few of his songs I like, the lyrics do make sense, and there is the same "angry" energy that much of the metal I liked contained (and with both, the lyrics and music are original and synergistic instead of ripped off or meaningless).

He is the exception though (and its only a couple of his songs I like). One of them was a collaboration with another (non-rap) artist, and his rap and energy blends (and contrasts) well with harmonies she provides.

-Spyder



Was it Rihanna by chance?

And I agree with your post whole-heartedly. And I don't think it has to do with our age. I think it has to do with a shift in society in general. If music is representative of culture and direction, we might be screwed, LOL

I'm not sure how long we've been on this downward spiral. Maybe longer than I've been alive, but I do feel we are slipping. I see it and feel it over my own short existence. We can't all be crazy.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I listen mostly pre 90's music, my favorites are Pink Floyd, Eagles ... Hedley lyrics is good but the music is nothing to write home about, I like "For The Nights I Can't Remember".


Thank you. The song grew on me because of those lyrics. I didn't like it at first. But I liked the WORDS; the message. And I find myself listening to it because of that.

 

[Shannow]

Does listening to Neil Diamond alternating with Pink on my daily commute lately exclude me from this thread ?

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


Was it Rihanna by chance?

And I agree with your post whole-heartedly. And I don't think it has to do with our age. I think it has to do with a shift in society in general. If music is representative of culture and direction, we might be screwed, LOL

I'm not sure how long we've been on this downward spiral. Maybe longer than I've been alive, but I do feel we are slipping. I see it and feel it over my own short existence. We can't all be crazy.


The one with Rihanna isn't the one I had in mind (its an older song, and can't for the life of me remember the name of the song or female artist he did it with), but its one of his better songs too and it has a similar energy and synergistic contrast.

I agree with the downward spiral society's been in, and our music of today (if only as a symptom) is no doubt part of it. I'm 37 FWIW (Gen X), and believe that to be the first generation to inherit the shift taking place down slope.

I say that because the boomers grew up, and into, a society that little resembles the one my generation came of age in. Everything today seems more extreme than it was yesterday - whether its politics and how much more polarizing (and extreme) they've become, increasingly violent (and often random) crime, prevalence and easy access to hard street drugs, job security and stability (or lack thereof in all but a fraction of fields out there, which has been steadily shrinking thanks to offshoring and the rise of McJobs), middle class wealth (shrinking as well), etc.

Maybe some of those things, too, are just symptoms of a rot that runs deeper within society. I like Apple as an easily visible symbol of this, in that they've really managed to capture the individualism of the day with their iEverything (they didn't create it, I don't fault them for that - they simply recognized the trend and successfully exploited it through their branding and image campaign).

There are other factors too, but all of them point or reinforce the same trend toward less personal, and increasingly impersonal, forms of communication and connections to and within society.

And there is the instant gratification of today too. Nothing new, in and of itself, but it was less common and not celebrated to the extent it is today. The heroes of yesterday - people of substance and contribution to things or causes greater than themselves - seem to have fallen by the wayside in favor of those created by things Reality TV and other forms of media. And their adored not for their substance or contributions, but for their sensationalism and controversy. They're also very transient: quickly forgotten by the short attention span of the day, or else they flame out fast and/or die young (too often as a result of the same lifestyle that brought them their fame).

Small wonder, though, when you consider the same institutions (such as schools) and organizations (like the Boy Scouts) that were responsible for building the sense of community, instilling values, and internalizing one's limitations and expectations of the social contract that is the essence of functional society, are either crumbling away or no longer "fashionable."

So yeah, I agree we are definitely slipping, and downward spiral is an even better word for it. Its not even that society, as we know it, is facing some threat to its existence; more like society, and all of the elements that make it what it is, is (d)evolving so fast that everything seems far more transient and temporary.

-Spyder

 

[xxch4osxx]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


Was it Rihanna by chance?

And I agree with your post whole-heartedly. And I don't think it has to do with our age. I think it has to do with a shift in society in general. If music is representative of culture and direction, we might be screwed, LOL

I'm not sure how long we've been on this downward spiral. Maybe longer than I've been alive, but I do feel we are slipping. I see it and feel it over my own short existence. We can't all be crazy.


The one with Rihanna isn't the one I had in mind (its an older song, and can't for the life of me remember the name of the song or female artist he did it with), but its one of his better songs too and it has a similar energy and synergistic contrast.

I agree with the downward spiral society's been in, and our music of today (if only as a symptom) is no doubt part of it. I'm 37 FWIW (Gen X), and believe that to be the first generation to inherit the shift taking place down slope.

I say that because the boomers grew up, and into, a society that little resembles the one my generation came of age in. Everything today seems more extreme than it was yesterday - whether its politics and how much more polarizing (and extreme) they've become, increasingly violent (and often random) crime, prevalence and easy access to hard street drugs, job security and stability (or lack thereof in all but a fraction of fields out there, which has been steadily shrinking thanks to offshoring and the rise of McJobs), middle class wealth (shrinking as well), etc.

Maybe some of those things, too, are just symptoms of a rot that runs deeper within society. I like Apple as an easily visible symbol of this, in that they've really managed to capture the individualism of the day with their iEverything (they didn't create it, I don't fault them for that - they simply recognized the trend and successfully exploited it through their branding and image campaign).

There are other factors too, but all of them point or reinforce the same trend toward less personal, and increasingly impersonal, forms of communication and connections to and within society.

And there is the instant gratification of today too. Nothing new, in and of itself, but it was less common and not celebrated to the extent it is today. The heroes of yesterday - people of substance and contribution to things or causes greater than themselves - seem to have fallen by the wayside in favor of those created by things Reality TV and other forms of media. And their adored not for their substance or contributions, but for their sensationalism and controversy. They're also very transient: quickly forgotten by the short attention span of the day, or else they flame out fast and/or die young (too often as a result of the same lifestyle that brought them their fame).

Small wonder, though, when you consider the same institutions (such as schools) and organizations (like the Boy Scouts) that were responsible for building the sense of community, instilling values, and internalizing one's limitations and expectations of the social contract that is the essence of functional society, are either crumbling away or no longer "fashionable."

So yeah, I agree we are definitely slipping, and downward spiral is an even better word for it. Its not even that society, as we know it, is facing some threat to its existence; more like society, and all of the elements that make it what it is, is (d)evolving so fast that everything seems far more transient and temporary.

-Spyder
Im 37 as well and I completely agree with his post.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Does listening to Neil Diamond alternating with Pink on my daily commute lately exclude me from this thread ?


Early Neil Diamond and Pink Floyd are AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ool7259xNQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5eOCB8snE4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH3pqYwDBdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQTFRq1hjtM

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


Was it Rihanna by chance?

And I agree with your post whole-heartedly. And I don't think it has to do with our age. I think it has to do with a shift in society in general. If music is representative of culture and direction, we might be screwed, LOL

I'm not sure how long we've been on this downward spiral. Maybe longer than I've been alive, but I do feel we are slipping. I see it and feel it over my own short existence. We can't all be crazy.


The one with Rihanna isn't the one I had in mind (its an older song, and can't for the life of me remember the name of the song or female artist he did it with), but its one of his better songs too and it has a similar energy and synergistic contrast.

I agree with the downward spiral society's been in, and our music of today (if only as a symptom) is no doubt part of it. I'm 37 FWIW (Gen X), and believe that to be the first generation to inherit the shift taking place down slope.

I say that because the boomers grew up, and into, a society that little resembles the one my generation came of age in. Everything today seems more extreme than it was yesterday - whether its politics and how much more polarizing (and extreme) they've become, increasingly violent (and often random) crime, prevalence and easy access to hard street drugs, job security and stability (or lack thereof in all but a fraction of fields out there, which has been steadily shrinking thanks to offshoring and the rise of McJobs), middle class wealth (shrinking as well), etc.

Maybe some of those things, too, are just symptoms of a rot that runs deeper within society. I like Apple as an easily visible symbol of this, in that they've really managed to capture the individualism of the day with their iEverything (they didn't create it, I don't fault them for that - they simply recognized the trend and successfully exploited it through their branding and image campaign).

There are other factors too, but all of them point or reinforce the same trend toward less personal, and increasingly impersonal, forms of communication and connections to and within society.

And there is the instant gratification of today too. Nothing new, in and of itself, but it was less common and not celebrated to the extent it is today. The heroes of yesterday - people of substance and contribution to things or causes greater than themselves - seem to have fallen by the wayside in favor of those created by things Reality TV and other forms of media. And their adored not for their substance or contributions, but for their sensationalism and controversy. They're also very transient: quickly forgotten by the short attention span of the day, or else they flame out fast and/or die young (too often as a result of the same lifestyle that brought them their fame).

Small wonder, though, when you consider the same institutions (such as schools) and organizations (like the Boy Scouts) that were responsible for building the sense of community, instilling values, and internalizing one's limitations and expectations of the social contract that is the essence of functional society, are either crumbling away or no longer "fashionable."

So yeah, I agree we are definitely slipping, and downward spiral is an even better word for it. Its not even that society, as we know it, is facing some threat to its existence; more like society, and all of the elements that make it what it is, is (d)evolving so fast that everything seems far more transient and temporary.

-Spyder


Wonderful disertation sir.

I bet the song was the Eminem/Dido duo "Stan".

What about the reflection of our thoughts through the written word?

If you've ever read a newspaper from previous decades, you will notice that those who write into the paper sound well educated and use proper spelling, punctuation, tense and form a well written argument/point regarding whatever they are trying to say.

As the electronic generation has taken hold, I find that more and more what people write is less and less coherent. Spelling is horrendous, grammar is non-existent and thoughts are muddled and an entire "point" may lack any sort of direction making deciphering what the author was trying to convey nary impossible.

It seems most people have no respect for language. How can I respect your opinion if you haven't even bothered to take the effort to make it coherent enough for me to understand? How can I respect your opinion if you haven't taken the EFFORT to use proper spelling and punctuation?

I don't expect everybody to write like an English major, but I do expect at least somewhat legible sentence structure and grammar so that whatever is being read can be processed without having to read it four our five times just to figure out what the person was trying to say.

This again ties in with the "dumbing down" of society, and is just another tilt in the downward spiral we are on. If you cannot respect yourself enough to properly educate yourself in the language in which you are fluent, then how can you possibly expect other people to respect what you are trying to say?

But nobody wants to listen. They all just want to be heard. Even if what they are saying makes no sense at all.

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Rap--Run DMC. The Beastie Boys 1st release. Fun, silly, makes one laugh. Paul Revere was a great rap song that was fun to memorize the lyrics. Lotsa fun.

Fun is no more. Nowadays, it's all about the S in RSP. So predictable. And the drum machines beats are pathetic. My old Alesis D-4 drum module had better sounds that most drum machines nowadays.

NWA. Killing cops with lotsa F bombs on CD. that was 20 years ago.

Progress? Not a chance. This genre has regressed. Blecch. Yes, idiocy all over. Sadly.


I'm not much of a Bruce Springsteen fan, but his song "The Rising" is incredible music and lyrics. I don't see anyone in pop culture championing those lyrics:
"
I see you mary in the garden

In the garden of a thousand sighs

There's holy pictures of our children

Dancin' in a sky filled with light

May I feel your arms around me

May I feel your blood mix with mine

A dream of life comes to me

Like a catfish dancin' on the end of my line"


No, instead, more idiocy and glorification of "S".


And we wonder why our little girls want to dress so sexy at the age of 9, 10, 11, etc...they're only acting out what they are drenched with day-in & day-out on TV, pop music (radio, if anyone listens to that anymore lol), and what's "in".

 

[OVERKILL]

One of my favourite songs, "The Bleeding" by Five Finger Death Punch:


I remember when all the games began
Remember every little lie and every last goodbye
Promises you broke, words you choked on
and I never walked away,
it's still a mystery to me

Well I'm so empty
I'm better off without you and you're better off without me
Well you're so unclean
I'm better off without you and you're better off without me

The lying, the bleeding, the screaming
Was tearing me apart
The hatred (deceiving), the beatings; it's over

Paint the mirrors black to forget you
I still picture your face and the way you used to taste
Roses in a glass, dead and wilted
To you this all was nothing
Everything to you is nothing

Well you're so filthy
I'm better off without you and you're better off without me
Well I'm so ugly
You're better off without me and I'm better off alone

The lying, the bleeding, the screaming
Was tearing me apart
The hatred, the beatings (disaster); it's over

As wicked as you are, you're beautiful to me
You're the darkest burning star, you're my perfect disease

The lying, the bleeding, the screaming
Was tearing me apart
The hatred, the beatings; it's over
Disaster
The lying, the bleeding, the screaming
Was tearing me apart
The hatred, the beatings; it's over
Disaster

It's over now...

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL


Was it Rihanna by chance?

And I agree with your post whole-heartedly. And I don't think it has to do with our age. I think it has to do with a shift in society in general. If music is representative of culture and direction, we might be screwed, LOL

I'm not sure how long we've been on this downward spiral. Maybe longer than I've been alive, but I do feel we are slipping. I see it and feel it over my own short existence. We can't all be crazy.


The one with Rihanna isn't the one I had in mind (its an older song, and can't for the life of me remember the name of the song or female artist he did it with), but its one of his better songs too and it has a similar energy and synergistic contrast.

I agree with the downward spiral society's been in, and our music of today (if only as a symptom) is no doubt part of it. I'm 37 FWIW (Gen X), and believe that to be the first generation to inherit the shift taking place down slope.

I say that because the boomers grew up, and into, a society that little resembles the one my generation came of age in. Everything today seems more extreme than it was yesterday - whether its politics and how much more polarizing (and extreme) they've become, increasingly violent (and often random) crime, prevalence and easy access to hard street drugs, job security and stability (or lack thereof in all but a fraction of fields out there, which has been steadily shrinking thanks to offshoring and the rise of McJobs), middle class wealth (shrinking as well), etc.

Maybe some of those things, too, are just symptoms of a rot that runs deeper within society. I like Apple as an easily visible symbol of this, in that they've really managed to capture the individualism of the day with their iEverything (they didn't create it, I don't fault them for that - they simply recognized the trend and successfully exploited it through their branding and image campaign).

There are other factors too, but all of them point or reinforce the same trend toward less personal, and increasingly impersonal, forms of communication and connections to and within society.

And there is the instant gratification of today too. Nothing new, in and of itself, but it was less common and not celebrated to the extent it is today. The heroes of yesterday - people of substance and contribution to things or causes greater than themselves - seem to have fallen by the wayside in favor of those created by things Reality TV and other forms of media. And their adored not for their substance or contributions, but for their sensationalism and controversy. They're also very transient: quickly forgotten by the short attention span of the day, or else they flame out fast and/or die young (too often as a result of the same lifestyle that brought them their fame).

Small wonder, though, when you consider the same institutions (such as schools) and organizations (like the Boy Scouts) that were responsible for building the sense of community, instilling values, and internalizing one's limitations and expectations of the social contract that is the essence of functional society, are either crumbling away or no longer "fashionable."

So yeah, I agree we are definitely slipping, and downward spiral is an even better word for it. Its not even that society, as we know it, is facing some threat to its existence; more like society, and all of the elements that make it what it is, is (d)evolving so fast that everything seems far more transient and temporary.

-Spyder


Wonderful disertation sir.

I bet the song was the Eminem/Dido duo "Stan".

What about the reflection of our thoughts through the written word?

If you've ever read a newspaper from previous decades, you will notice that those who write into the paper sound well educated and use proper spelling, punctuation, tense and form a well written argument/point regarding whatever they are trying to say.

As the electronic generation has taken hold, I find that more and more what people write is less and less coherent. Spelling is horrendous, grammar is non-existent and thoughts are muddled and an entire "point" may lack any sort of direction making deciphering what the author was trying to convey nary impossible.

It seems most people have no respect for language. How can I respect your opinion if you haven't even bothered to take the effort to make it coherent enough for me to understand? How can I respect your opinion if you haven't taken the EFFORT to use proper spelling and punctuation?

I don't expect everybody to write like an English major, but I do expect at least somewhat legible sentence structure and grammar so that whatever is being read can be processed without having to read it four our five times just to figure out what the person was trying to say.

This again ties in with the "dumbing down" of society, and is just another tilt in the downward spiral we are on. If you cannot respect yourself enough to properly educate yourself in the language in which you are fluent, then how can you possibly expect other people to respect what you are trying to say?

But nobody wants to listen. They all just want to be heard. Even if what they are saying makes no sense at all.


Your last sentence is dead on: 'nobody wants to listen. They just want to be heard.' The abundance, and forms, our so-called 'social networking' sites, and the explosion in blogging, are proof positive of that point; despite the "social" part of the networking, they all substantively resemble one another, in that they serve chiefly as a medium 'to be heard.' Dialogue is secondary, or lacking entirely.

I did a semester of 4 courses two years ago at the same university I originally did my undergrad studies at, and the changes brought about through the new toys of today was mind-blowing.

When I studied there in the 90s, cellphones and laptops were both the kinds of rare and expensive gadgets few students could afford, and the technology was still so primitive that they served no functional role in the classroom at all - so they were totally absent. Unless you were doing a calculus or stats type course (or were an engineering student), the only thing you took to class was a pen or two and a notebook or note pad. Lectures from professors were just that - they spoke for the duration of the class, while you simply took notes; there was the odd question and answer, and sometimes some discussion (more advanced courses and seminars reversed this in that they were mostly discussion based), but that was about it.

The campus was physically the same the 2nd trip through, but the landscape within the classroom was now completely altered. Lectures were replaced by dimly lit classrooms showing power point presentations (which were available online for those with better things to do in class than take notes), and laptops and cellphone usage was everywhere. Because the campus also had a wifi internet, most of those with laptops had one or more of Facebook, Myspace, etc open; and the built in mic captured whatever audio component was delivered, freeing them completely of any need to pay attention to what was going on.

Then there was the rampant text messaging, and the routine traffic in and out of the class as people left to take calls on their cellphones.

And although, my first-time through, English professors were the most consistent and punitive for grammar and spelling mistakes, as you'd expect them to be, you still got docked some marks in almost any class where they surfaced in long answer or essay style questions. Not so the second time around - my writing had definitely deteriorated from lack of academic level use, yet in none of these courses were marks ever docked for those types of errors.

In comparing the mainstream writing (even at the professional level, as with news media etc) of today versus yesterday, what is most striking to me is the presentation. Maybe because the copy writers of yesterday had only the written word to convey their message, there was much more substance in their writing. Now its more a point form summary of what someone else said, with scant (if any) space spent to any meaningful critical examination.

Gone too, almost entirely, are Fifth Estate (or 60 Minutes) type programs which examined the various issues of the day and brought them to the public's attention. Instead we have sound bites and Reality TV.

In thinking about all of this, one constant thread running through it all is how image oriented we, as a society, have become. We're less interested in the message, than the messenger; and substance has taken a back seat entirely to style.

Its all a bit ironic when we live in the 'information age,' and particularly when access to information (and education) is so much easier and open than it was 10 or 20 years ago. No need today to even go a library if you want to read a classic - it can be found online in the public domain with a few keystrokes. Likewise, with the growth of Open University projects, there is a wealth of university level course content online that is there for anyone wishing to take advantage of it.

But then we arrive full-circle to where you hit the nail right on the head: nobody wants to listen (or learn) today, they just want to be heard.

And I remember when l33t speak first surfaced online. Again, today its not the message that matters (or even if the person understands it), but what the person 'composing' that message desires to impart to the reader about themselves with how its written. And where clarity and substance were once valued, now its just presentation and volume. We have text messaging short-hand not because the writer needs to condense the 3 or 4 words in the message to short-form because of time constraints (and certainly not to make the message any clearer), but simply to make it easier to pump out a higher volume of text messages.

The song I was thinking of was in fact "Stan" with Dido. It also brought her music onto my radar and I became, for a time, a fan of some of her other stuff that I likely wouldn't have heard otherwise.

-Spyder

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7
We have text messaging short-hand not because the writer needs to condense the 3 or 4 words in the message to short-form because of time constraints (and certainly not to make the message any clearer), but simply to make it easier to pump out a higher volume of text messages.


Because they of course have so much more to say about more and more with increasingly less and less substance. What is the value in an ebonic-riddled text-abbreviated facebook status message about one's breakfast routine?

The ear-splitting screams of blogger garbage; everyone trying to yell their gibberish louder than the others that they are screaming against. But nobody hears a [censored] thing.

What should be the expected outcome of a society in which the only sound you hear is the sound of your own voice straining against your eardrums as your empty words melt into the abyss of pop-culture diarrhoea and mind-numbing garbage put forth by the lungs and fingers of your peers?

Bleak. That is the word that enters my mind.

 

[OVERKILL]

Reviving this thread (don't shoot me!)

Listening to Stan Rogers tonight, some classic maritime goodness.

One of my favourite songs: Lies

Originally Posted By: Stan Rogers

At last the kids are gone now for the day
She reaches for the coffee as the school bus pulls away
Another day to tend the house and plan
For Friday at the Legion, when she's dancing with her man
Sure was a bitter winter, but Friday will be fine
And maybe last years Easter dress will serve her one more time
She'd pass for 29 but for her eyes
But winter lines are telling wicked lines

Oh lies....
All those lines are telling wicked lies
Lies, all lies
Too many lines, there in that face
Too many to erase or to disguise, they must be telling lies

Is this the face that won for her the man
Who's amazed and clumsy fingers put that ring upon her hand
No need to search that mirror for the years
The menace in their message shouts across the blur of tears
So this is beauty's finish? like Rodin's belle heaulmiere
The pretty maiden trapped inside the ranch wife's toil and care
But after seven kids that's no surprise
But why cannot her mirror tell her lies?

Oh lies.........
All those lines are telling wicked lies
Lies, all lies
Too many lines they're in that face
Too many to erase or to disguise
They must be telling lies

Then she shakes off the bitter web she wove
And turns to set the mirror gently face-down by the stove
She gathers up her apron in her hand
Pours a cup of coffee and drips Carnation from the can
And thinks ahead to Friday, yes Friday will be fine
She'll look up in that weathered face that loves hers line for line
To see that maiden shining in his eyes and laugh at how her mirror tells her lies

Oh lies.....
All those lines are telling wicked lies
Lies, all lies
Too many lines they're in that face
Too many to erase or to disguise
They must be telling lies

All those line are telling wicked lies
Lies, all lies
Too many lines they're in that face
Too many to erase or to disguise
They must be telling lies