Camaro 3800 series II

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mechanic380

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So I think I may have a blown head gasket. When I did a Google search for common problems with the 3800 all the relevant information was from threads here. Hopefully yall can help.
I purchased the car and have been slowly fixing minor problems. The previous owner said it was having overheating issues. He said he added radiator stop leak and replaced the cap with the lever style which solved the problem.
The radiator was filled with junk. I thought it was from the additive. It seems it may be oil sludge though. I flushed it and refilled it. I drained the oil, it was black and appeared of a normal consistency. No milkiness. I have seen a lot of oil and it looked normal. When I added new oil it immediately appeared to have coolant in it. Every time I dip it now it looks milky. There is white residue on the fill neck.
I bought this vehicle very cheap for resale and have invested less than 300 dollars in repairs. I am at the point that I need to decide whether to scrap it or try one of the liquid repairs, therma gasket steal seal or what not.
Does my diagnoses of a blown head gasket sound accurate or could it be one of the more common problems that I have seen discussed here. I find it odd that there was no evidence of this before I replaced the oil.
 
Check the spark plugs for signs of coolant.

Could be the intake gasket.

That engine is generally bullet proof.
Might be worth fixing even IF it is the head gaskets.
 
I drove it back from where I purchased it. It misfired under heavy throttle and had a check engine light on. Ran good though otherwise. I replaced the plugs and wires. Amazingly the light went off after this. Never even heard of such a thing. I thought they always had to be reset. It runs perfectly with a smooth idle and no misfires.
The plugs were very worn. I wish I still had them now that I ran into this other issue. They had no moisture but did not look typical. I believe the plugs were all whitish like they were burned due to excess heat. I think this vehicle was very poorly maintained. I would not be surprised if they were the original wires. They were definitely OE spec.
I need to pull the engine at least partially for the rear main seal and oil pan gasket so maybe I will take it all the way out.
Any tips on differentiating the intake and a head gasket? Would combustion gases in the radiator indicate the head gasket only?
 
A lot more likely to be the intake gaskets. My '96 was accompanied by some external coolant leakage around a intake bolt or two after flushing the gunk out of the cooling system.
 
Thanks for the advice. I seem to have found a great forum. I am sure you will be seeing more of me.
 
Most likely lower intake manifold gaskets. I did the same job on my Buick 40k miles ago out of preventative maintenance. Those gaskets were on the edge of failure, and were done just in time.

Head gaskets rarely go on a 3800. The factory lower intake manifold gaskets go depressingly regularly.

Get some new-style GM metal gaskets and you're back in business. On my Buick it ran me about $250 in parts. Your Camaro should be about $150 since your upper intake is metal, IIRC.
 
The 3800 is one of the best engines ever made by GM and if maintained correctly, it should last longer then most of us. If the coolant/Dexcool is changed every 4 years and 50K miles then you will not have any cooling issues. Most people do not maintain their cars and thats when you have problems. The 3400 had many more problems then the 3800...
 
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Make sure when you read up on common problems they apply to your rare RWD 3800 which as said above has a different intake etc.

It should be pretty easy to do intake and head gaskets on this car; why not drop an advance auto 40% coupon and do it right? Don't rip off your future buyer with patch-in-a-bottle, sometimes they are very resourceful with vengeance.
 
In addition to the lower intake gaskets, the EGR stovepipe cooling jacket will leak in the plastic upper intake manifold, so that will have to be fixed as well.

Oops, didn't see the posts above. IF the upper manifold is plastic it'll need to be fixed.
 
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Ok I am going to pull the engine and replace everything needed. I searched autozone because of the discount available, but their intake gaskets don't appear to be the metal upgrade everyone recommends. Are these only available from a dealership? The parts are relatively cheep and I have plenty of time.
What is the best check I can do to verify this is NOT a head gasket issue.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanic380
Ok I am going to pull the engine and replace everything needed. I searched autozone because of the discount available, but their intake gaskets don't appear to be the metal upgrade everyone recommends. Are these only available from a dealership? The parts are relatively cheep and I have plenty of time.
What is the best check I can do to verify this is NOT a head gasket issue.

Fel-Pro makes a Problem Solver set you want to get which is the upgraded design.
 
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
In addition to the lower intake gaskets, the EGR stovepipe cooling jacket will leak in the plastic upper intake manifold, so that will have to be fixed as well.

Oops, didn't see the posts above. IF the upper manifold is plastic it'll need to be fixed.


Fortunately there is no plastic upper intake to deal with on the F-body. I did see some signs of coolant leakage between one of the o-rings that seal the cooling passages between the upper and lower intake and an intake runner. Those o-rings and a large paper upper intake gasket come as an upper intake kit that will need replacing as well.
 
AFAIK, the newest aluminum gaskets are dealer-only. That could have changed in the 1.5 years since I did mine, and Fel-Pro could be re-boxing the aluminum GM gaskets.

Look around online. You should be able to find them for about $65 shipped, or maybe you could ask your local dealer to cut you a deal when shown an online price.

The second-generation Fel-Pro gaskets are still nylon, not aluminum. Avoid those like the plague, unless you need the car up and running later today. They will degrade just like the originals.
 
I pulled all the plugs and ran a compression check. The plugs are brand new bosch platinum, I realize this may not have been the best choice. They have less than 100 miles on them and the outside electrode is grayish. There is black uniform deposits on the internally exposed rim of all the plugs. It looks like baked on oil. They were very uniform.
Compression results were 190-200 for all cylinders. This sounds high but I cannot find specs for my motor. I have seen references to 130-150 on a 3800 site but this was for a boneville. The experienced techs also said that was low and were quoting 180's as normal. At any rate yall were right this engine is pretty tough. Lack of maintenance and overheating has left this vehicle with strong compression 130,000 miles later.
I am still getting the extreme random misfire at 80%-WOT only. It idles rough at start up but quickly levels off to a good steady idle. I am going to go ahead with the LIM gasket change. I hope this fixes the issue but I am doubtful.
I have seen some horror stories of people tracking down WOT misses and am hoping I can solve mine easily. Any advice or help is appreciated.
I hooked up my new scan tool. There was a stored O2 sensor code but not an illuminated MIL. Also a stored random missfire code. I watched the O2 sensors while going for a drive and based on my limited knowledge they looked good. B1S1 cycled normally until 80% plus throttle at which time both sensors were reading rich. B1s2 stayed roughly in the middle of sensor ones oscillation up to 80%+ throttle.
At 80%-WOT there is a very strong random missfire and lack of power. If I approach WOT more slowly it doesn't come on as strongly.
I am going to purchase the full live data pack so I will have better info after I get the gaskets replaced and the engine back in.
 
Another common problem with these cars is the fuel pump starting to fail. It's possible that would cause the miss at WOT, but it usually shows up initially with the car being hard to start.

I am in agreement with most of the posts about this engine being easy on head gaskets, but depending on the extent of overheating, any engine can experience head gasket failure.

Check the air intake around the MAF and see if any oil is showing up. My son's 3.8 Camaro has this problem, along with rich codes. Changing out the PCV hasn't helped.

I have never heard of the Felpro Problem Solver gasket set failing in this application, so that is news to me. If true, it makes sense to go with the GM gaskets.
 
Originally Posted By: mechanic380
I pulled all the plugs and ran a compression check. The plugs are brand new bosch platinum, I realize this may not have been the best choice.


Change those out to something else like NGK TR55's or Autolite 605's, and I bet you WOT misfire goes away. Bosch Platinum plugs DO NOT work with the waste-spark ignition on a Series II 3800 V6. They degrade rapidly, and often will result in a misfire since they're degraded so badly. Many a misfiring 3800 in a Bonneville has proven that the Bosch plugs just don't work.

If you overheated, I bet your LIM gaskets are cooked. Change those, change the plugs to a copper or iridium plug from NGK or Autolite, and enjoy having a much quicker V6 Camaro.
 
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