Under valve cover pics. 1999 Nissan Frontier. 140K

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This 1999 Nissan Frontier has the 2.4, 5 speed with 144k miles. I've owned it since 2007, when it had 59k miles. I used to drive a lot for my job, so most of those are highway miles. I usually run synthetic, but there have been several 5k mile dino changes in the mix. I ran Auto RX when I first bought the truck, around May, 2007.

Overall I think it looks pretty good. The only thing is that there are two small spots where there is black gunk. I assume this is some kind of sludge. I guess there is something about that spot that gets hotter and cooks the oil.
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There isn't any sludge anywhere else that I can see.

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Timing chains still have to be replaced though because they stretch a little bit over time. Im not sure how often they are supposed to be changed.
 
Refer to manuals for specifics on timing chains, definitely agree with them being "better" than the rubber timing belts.

The pics look solid, IMO.
 
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Timing chains still have to be replaced though because they stretch a little bit over time. Im not sure how often they are supposed to be changed.


They usually never are unless a motor is being refreshed. There is no "change interval" on a timing chain.
 
Nice and clean for 140k miles, syn or dino are perfectly good to keep the engine clean looking as long as OCI is not too long, something like 10-12k for syn and 6-7k for dino.
 
Hi.

Timing chains or belts are pretty much the same. I don't think one offers another advantage over the other. The timing chain is less maintenance because usually, it doesn't skip/break/whatever. However, just like all chains, it must be tensioned. So the engine has a chain tensioned to cope with the slack that occurs over the life of the vehicle. That's why you never see chain replacement intervals for chain driven cars.

However, that's because car engines sold to consumers simply do not induce enough stress on the chain. In high performance engines that operate in strenuous conditions and at high speeds, chain tension is difficult to consistently maintain. That's why they must be manually adjusted, and usually after a race or whatever, they must be replaced.

Timing belts are the same. They still use a belt tension device and have teeth to accurately time the turn of the camshafts. Usually, a belt doesn't break with today's materials...it usually skips or hops due to worn materials. With today's materials, belts actually don't stretch per se, if you think they do. They act almost like chains in that regard. However, they also suffer the same high speed problems as chains.

They are two ways of going about turning the camshafts. One is not superior than the other. If an engine suffers major damage because of a worn timing belt, that's the engine's design fault and lapses in the owner's failure to properly maintain their vehicle. It can happen with a chain as well. However, chains given more confidence because they are less likely to skip a tooth. However, superior as it may look, the chain system is only as good as the oil that's placed inside the engine. Since the chain is lubricated by the engine oil, if the owner fails to change his or her oil at reasonable intervals, engine problems can result.

So, I really think they are the same. Most of my cars have belt driven camshafts, and my Elise and ZX-10R have chain driven camshafts. I tossed out the automatic chain tensioner in my motorcycle after it failed to properly time the camshafts. This was probably due to the power output and increased engine speed that resulted from an engine rebuild. The Elise has been ok, but it has too few miles on it to say. I replaced the belts on my Tacoma and MR2 every 100,000 miles.

I like the idea that I can have a fresh belt instead of a used chain.
 
I prefer a good chain. A well designed chain drive can last the life of the engine, or 2-3 or even more recommended timing belt replacements. Changing a belt costs time and money, sometimes a substantial amount with engine front end disassembly and replacing tensioners and waterpumps. And if it's not done right it can affect the cam timing and engine running. Some cars' timing belt had as little as 60K change interval and is quite the nusiance

Belts can break if not changed, but even if they just loose teeth that can still damage an interference engine. Oil can contaminate the belt and just heat and exposure gets to them, not unlike drive belts. It's for good reasons timing belts have become less common. I heard Japan use to have a problem with lots of cars broken down due to bad timing belts.
 
Originally Posted By: dtt004


So, I really think they are the same.


They're not the same.

For a high-performance racing application, sure--they both require regular maintenance. In a passenger car seeing normal use (including high-mileage fleet use), a timing chain is generally maintenance-free for the duty cycle of the vehicle. A belt, OTOH, has replacement intervals of 60-100K or so; and failure to adhere to the service interval generally leads to catastrophic failure. And timing belt replacement can be expensive, anywhere from $400 to $3,000 (yes, 3K was the quote for a friend's A4.).

Sure, you have to follow regular oil change intervals, but let's face it: if one is running 30K OCI's on dino without ever checking the oil level, the timing chain is probably the least of their worries...
 
The engine looks really good. Those little sludge pockets are weird? Guess it gets hot/has poor flow on those 2 small spots. I'm curious, did you manually clean those up? I doubt they're doing any harm, but I imagine it would be tough to re-install the valve cover with those two dirty spots!
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Timing chains still have to be replaced though because they stretch a little bit over time. Im not sure how often they are supposed to be changed.


They usually never are unless a motor is being refreshed. There is no "change interval" on a timing chain.


Originally Posted By: dparm
Timing chains are basically lifetime. I have never seen a replacement interval on one.



While there is "no" change interval. Timing chains can and do go bad from time to time. They can stretch so much so that they can throw timing off. While very rare, they can even snap. Some cars are plagued with these issues from poor design. Some cars it can just happen from normal wear. It's like anything else ever made. From the day it's put into use, it's on it's way out!

More importantly, the thing to go is not likely the timing chain, but more likely the timing chain tensioner(s). And if it goes you can rack up 1000's of dollars of damage with in seconds. . . .

I personally would not want to run a tensioner much past 150k. And if im going in to do the tensioners, it's only logical to do the chains as well. . . . .
 
Originally Posted By: cjcride
Well maintained engine. Bet there is not much oil flow at those spots. Sediment collects there. Not "hot spots".

Nice pic's.


I guess that could be the case. But, there are lower points surrounding the gunked-up spots. I would assume sediment would collect at the lowest point.
 
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Timing chains still have to be replaced though because they stretch a little bit over time. Im not sure how often they are supposed to be changed.


They usually never are unless a motor is being refreshed. There is no "change interval" on a timing chain.


Originally Posted By: dparm
Timing chains are basically lifetime. I have never seen a replacement interval on one.



While there is "no" change interval. Timing chains can and do go bad from time to time. They can stretch so much so that they can throw timing off. While very rare, they can even snap. Some cars are plagued with these issues from poor design. Some cars it can just happen from normal wear. It's like anything else ever made. From the day it's put into use, it's on it's way out!

More importantly, the thing to go is not likely the timing chain, but more likely the timing chain tensioner(s). And if it goes you can rack up 1000's of dollars of damage with in seconds. . . .

I personally would not want to run a tensioner much past 150k. And if im going in to do the tensioners, it's only logical to do the chains as well. . . . .



Most of my Ford's haven't had tensioners (Windsors) and had really short chains. Even the chain that came out of my Licoln with 320,000Km on it (changed it when I did heads/cam/intake) wasn't that stretched. I was surprised.

I have no intention of replacing the tensioners on either of our 5.4L's, and both are quickly coming up to your 150,000 mile mark. Perhaps on some engine families this is a necessary PM item, as you've mentioned, but AFAIK, it isn't on the modulars.
 
I get a kick out of Audi. They use a belt to drive one cam on each head, then use a chain within each head to drive the other cam. So they get the best and worst of both worlds.

Although I prefer chains, I had a Toyota 22re that snapped a chain guide. Fortuantely it didn't go far enough out of time to bend anything. A new chain set fixed it up. And I had a m42 BMW 4-cylinder whose tensioner was weak at 150,000 miles... made awful noises when cold.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Timing chains still have to be replaced though because they stretch a little bit over time. Im not sure how often they are supposed to be changed.


They usually never are unless a motor is being refreshed. There is no "change interval" on a timing chain.


+1 Far superior to a belt, IMO.
 
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