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#2228777 - 04/11/11 07:56 AM '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
This is an '07 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD LBZ Duramax. The truck had 175,000 miles on it at the time of this OCI/UOA (182k or so now), running Shell Rotella T6 5W-40 since about 45,000 and using a Fram PH9100 filter (no bypass or extra filtration). The engine operates daily on a +160 tuner, as it has since about 30k. I do very little towing, and when I do, it's rarely more than 3-4,000 lbs.


Wear Metals (most recent, last):

Cu 3, 3
Fe 58, 46
Cr 1, 1
Al 3, 3
Pb 2, 2
Sn 1, 0
Si 4, 5
Na 4, 6
K 4, 2
Mo 66, 58
Ca 959, 1398
Mg 1156, 996
Zn 1356, 1456
P 1106, 1216


Oil Condition/Particle Count (ctml):

St 37, 39
OXI 18,17
NIT 10, 10
SUL 22, 22
W N
A N
F N
V100 14.6, 14.7


I welcome any informed thoughts or analysis of this sample/history.

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#2228811 - 04/11/11 08:37 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
Johnny Offline


Registered: 05/27/02
Posts: 14013
Loc: Retired | Wausau, WI
welcome to BITOG

How many miles were on this oil change?

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#2228827 - 04/11/11 08:51 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Johnny]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
Originally Posted By: Johnny
How many miles were on this oil change?


Ahh, the magic question...

Both of those were on a 25,000 mile OCI. The first was actually a bit early - closer to 23k, but the second was at 25,150.

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#2228838 - 04/11/11 09:11 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
Hokiefyd Offline


Registered: 06/24/04
Posts: 11492
Loc: North Carolina
I think they generally say that iron (Fe) tracks with mileage, so for 23,000 miles, this looks pretty dadgum good. Viscosity is good. Did this analysis not include a TBN (Total Base Number)?

Welcome to the forum!
_________________________
Cheers,
Jason

2008 Honda CR-V EX-L (QSUD 5W-30)
2005 Acura MDX Touring (FMC 5W-20)

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#2228848 - 04/11/11 09:18 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Hokiefyd]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Did this analysis not include a TBN (Total Base Number)?


Nossir, it didn't. My understanding of the TBN is that it's a measure of, or a method of determining whether the oil can be used further/longer. If I'm correct about that, I would assume the TBN is in an acceptable range, as both samples/tests included the note "No problems currently associated with this sample. Continue sampling at the normal interval."

Feel free to correct me if you think that's an unsafe assumption.


Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Welcome to the forum!


Thanks.

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#2228936 - 04/11/11 11:00 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
Jim Allen Offline


Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 4477
Loc: NW Ohio
This is an outstanding UOA. I don't see a soot number... or is is the "St 37 39". I presume that's in ppm. The iron is outstanding for the miles. I'm sure Dave Newton is going to dance with joy when he sees this.

TBN (Total Base Number) will tell you how much of the additive pack is remaining but the sulfation and nitration tells you pretty much the same thing. They are the percentages of 100 percent, with 75 percent generally being the allowable max. Sulfation is the inverse of TBN. In this sample, it was 22, or 22 percent of the 100 percent, which would also indicate a 0 TBN. In my own tests the sulfation percentage correlates pretty well to TBN.

Sulfation, nitration and oxidation are all determined by Infrared Spectroscopy. According to Wear Check, they do not make condemnations based on these numbers alone but 75 percent is the usual limit. Essentially, the TBN alone will tell the tale as much as it's needed to be told.


Edited by Jim Allen (04/11/11 11:00 AM)
_________________________
Jim Allen
Keepin' the Good Old Days of Four Wheeling Alive

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#2229001 - 04/11/11 12:03 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Jim Allen]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
This is an outstanding UOA. I don't see a soot number... or is is the "St 37 39". I presume that's in ppm.


You're correct, the 'St' number is the Soot reading. The unit listed for it is 'ct/ml.'

Still outstanding?

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#2229270 - 04/11/11 04:26 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
Jim Allen Offline


Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 4477
Loc: NW Ohio
Was this test done by CAT? They use that "counts/milliliter" thing rather than expressing it as a percentage. I don't know how to convert it to percent or ppm but based on stuff I've seen elsewhere 34c/ml MIGHT be around .5 percent.
_________________________
Jim Allen
Keepin' the Good Old Days of Four Wheeling Alive

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#2229764 - 04/12/11 06:28 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Jim Allen]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Was this test done by CAT?


It was. I'm in the construction business, so have a CAT rep who stops by every other week or so. It was just the easiest way for me to get started doing UOAs on this truck.

Since I've become interested in it, and after reading and learning more on this site and elsewhere, I'm planning to pull two samples at the next OCI - one for CAT and one for Blackstone (their free kit is on the way).


Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
...based on stuff I've seen elsewhere 34c/ml MIGHT be around .5 percent.


That'd be a good number, wouldn't it?


Edited by Meathead (04/12/11 06:29 AM)

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#2229780 - 04/12/11 06:56 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
Jim Allen Offline


Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 4477
Loc: NW Ohio
That would be a great number but I'm not so sure about it now. I really don't know how to convert that but I posted a question. You might contact your cat rep and help us all out by asking them how to convert ct/ml to percent. I have heard reference to a conversion chart on the web but, after a search, couldn't find it.
_________________________
Jim Allen
Keepin' the Good Old Days of Four Wheeling Alive

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#2229798 - 04/12/11 07:22 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Jim Allen]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
You might contact your cat rep and help us all out by asking them how to convert ct/ml to percent.


I've done just that this morning, and will post whatever response I receive from their lab.

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#2229887 - 04/12/11 09:08 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Jim Allen]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
From the CAT lab:

"...the numbers you see are not particles per milliliter (that is for particle counts only), they are "UFM" or "Unsubtracted FTIR Method" numbers. These are based on absorbance of infra-red light at different wavelengths. You can convert the soot UFM number to percent weight using the attached chart. Simply look up the number on your report in the "Abs" column on the chart, ignoring the decimals, and to the right you will find the corresponding percent weight result. For example, your most recent soot UFM result was 37, so you would find the Abs line for 0.37, which tells you that your percent by weight is 0.56%. This chart only works for the soot number."

I'm not sure how (on this forum) to copy and post the chart he attached to this email, so I hope this explanation is sufficient.

Given his conclusion that the Soot reading for my UOA is 56%, please also tell me your thoughts about that.


Edited by Meathead (04/12/11 09:12 AM)

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#2229992 - 04/12/11 11:13 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
Jim Allen Offline


Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 4477
Loc: NW Ohio
Well, .56 is outstanding for a 25K run. I've seen diesels over 2 percent at 10K. What is the time interval and is this mostly highway type driving. You can wail on it to much with soot levels like that. Can't believe D Newton hasn't commented yet.
_________________________
Jim Allen
Keepin' the Good Old Days of Four Wheeling Alive

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#2230889 - 04/13/11 08:47 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Jim Allen]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
Well, .56 is outstanding for a 25K run. I've seen diesels over 2 percent at 10K.


That's good news. I haven't seen this stated specifically anywhere, but based on the way you phrased that, I gather the Soot reading is cumulative, as well? If so, can I also assume .56 is no reason to give up on that load of oil just yet?

Would you suggest pushing the OCI to 30k?

Also, based on what I've read and learned here and elsewhere about UOA, I'm thinkin' I may pull a sample at the halfway point - 12.5k, to be able to keep a closer eye on things as I go beyond the 200k mark. Can you (or anyone else) offer any thoughts about that?

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
What is the time interval and is this mostly highway type driving.


This most recent OCI ran from 08.13.10 to 03.31.11, about 7 1/2 months. It is primarily highway driving, but there's a fair amount of sitting in traffic highway driving there, as well. I do live in the Atlanta area, after all.


Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
You can wail on it to much with soot levels like that. Can't believe D Newton hasn't commented yet.


I'm not sure I follow that, exactly. I think you might be suggesting that I don't wail on it very often. That couldn't be further from the truth, actually. I drive pretty well like an old man the vast majority of the time. My biggest weakness, though, is another diesel truck (or a litle tuner car with one of those obnoxious flatulence-box mufflers, or a late-model muscle car, or a European sports car, or...) sitting next to me at a light, wondering if the incessant whistle really means anything. I'm a sucker for a stoplight-drag challenge, and those occur with remarkable frequency...especially when you're out lookin' for 'em.

The short answer: I stomp on it...a LOT.


Edited by Meathead (04/13/11 08:50 AM)

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#2235686 - 04/18/11 11:08 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5639
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
I had the opportunity to confer with Meathead over on another forum, and I encouraged him to come over here and join us real lube nuts, so I've already had the priveledge of seeing his UOA info.

25k miles with that kind of performance really puts things in perspective. Especially when some would cringe at the use of the OCOD. Most impressive, would we not agree?

Someday, more people might realize that today's common rail diesels and quality lubes can just go a lot further than they first suspect. These ain't your daddy's lubes any more ...



Edited by dnewton3 (04/18/11 11:08 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

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#2236551 - 04/19/11 05:55 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: dnewton3]
Bambam Offline


Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 747
Loc: CT
Now that dino oil can go the distance,what kind of technology is out there to keep my itchy "change the oil finger" at bay? blush
_________________________
07 DMAX CC 4x4
265 Goodyears
Bilstein 5100's
T-C pump rub fix
EGR Blocked
PCV rerouted
efi live tuned

Student of dnewton's dino teachings

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#2236829 - 04/19/11 11:30 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5639
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Ah - there's the rub. Most of us BITOGers like to wrench; it's in our blood.

I prefer to tinker with "improvements". On my Dmax: added p/s cooler, upgraded the xfer case (before the infamous pump rub got to it), added a pyro gage, improved skid plate protection by adding bracing, made a home-made diff cover to improve cooling, etc. Next up? A rear diff temp sensor (thanks to Jim Allen for getting me hooked on gage-fever ...)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
#2237596 - 04/20/11 07:20 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: dnewton3]
Jim Allen Offline


Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 4477
Loc: NW Ohio
I find that gaugewatching fills that deep seated need (perhaps "compulsion is a better word). That carries me through one, two and three year intervals on my various equipment. Besides, I have plenty of work to do.
_________________________
Jim Allen
Keepin' the Good Old Days of Four Wheeling Alive

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#2418094 - 10/27/11 05:02 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
I finally got to the next OCI. I sent another sample to the local CAT folks and, as noted previously, also sent one to Blackstone this time.

[img:left]http://meathead.smugmug.com/Trucks/Williebago-Upgrades/2480091_FvBM56#1553194827_MkHPt37[/img]

[img:left]http://meathead.smugmug.com/Trucks/Williebago-Upgrades/2480091_FvBM56#1553194833_wkswd7f[/img]


Y'all feel free to comment.

I've been cutting filters open lately, too, and that PH9100 from the last OCI had some fairly significant wrinkles in the pleats. I'm curious if this is an indication of filter saturation, and if perhaps I should start changing the oil filter mid-interval. Any input on that idea is welcome, as well.


edit: I'm not sure why those pictures only show as links - not particularly familiar with this forum. The links do work, though, from what I can tell.



Edited by Meathead (10/27/11 05:04 PM)

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#2418146 - 10/27/11 06:07 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
bullwinkle Offline


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 4109
Loc: Cincinnati, OH, USA
I would try a better filter such as a Fleetguard Stratapore, Donaldson High Endurance, Mobil 1 or Bosch Distance Plus and kick the OCOD to the curb!
_________________________
06 Ram 3500 CTD 4X4 48RE SRW, 93 GMC C3500 6.2 diesel, 89 F-450 7.3 IDI, 98 Cherokee 4.0, 05 Scion xB, 82 Mercedes 300D, company van 12 Ford E-250 4.6

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#2418375 - 10/27/11 10:33 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: bullwinkle]
Smokefan1977 Offline


Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 674
Loc: Gilbert, AZ
I have 13 guages grin
_________________________
2000 F350 7.3 4X4- Highly modded. Redline 15-40
99 F150 2wd. Mobil 0-40 MC820S
07 F150 2wd. Ultra 5-30 or Redline MC820S

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#2418786 - 10/28/11 01:29 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
Ponch Offline


Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: Bay City Michigan
Ahh yes....this is the kind of info I needed to better help me sleep at night! I have the same truck/same engine,and running same oil... and have recentely been playing around with a 120+ horse tune on my bullydog programmer...and was hoping that I wasnt doing much damage to her... "meathead" how high of EGT do you get when running hard??

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#2418865 - 10/28/11 02:36 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Ponch]
Smokefan1977 Offline


Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 674
Loc: Gilbert, AZ
Be very careful with the bullydog. The allison is not a big fan of it and will go into LIMP mode pretty quickly. High EGT's are okay for short burst, it sustained high EGT that is the killer.
_________________________
2000 F350 7.3 4X4- Highly modded. Redline 15-40
99 F150 2wd. Mobil 0-40 MC820S
07 F150 2wd. Ultra 5-30 or Redline MC820S

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#2419188 - 10/28/11 08:15 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Ponch]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
Originally Posted By: Ponch
Ahh yes....this is the kind of info I needed to better help me sleep at night! I have the same truck/same engine,and running same oil... and have recentely been playing around with a 120+ horse tune on my bullydog programmer...and was hoping that I wasnt doing much damage to her... "meathead" how high of EGT do you get when running hard??


I'm a bit embarrassed to say I actually have no idea. I purchased gauges and an A-pillar mount for 'em a bit over a year ago, but got taken out on my motorcycle before I got a chance to do the install. I'm planning to install those (along with several other mods) during the holidays this year, so I could tell you then.

I do carry a code scanner with me, and have ever since the tuner went into service, and I can tell you the only "limp" my truck's ever gone into was the result of a 'low fuel rail pressure' code, NOT a tranny limp. I believe the '07 Allison can handle what the LBZ can give it in stock trim - mine certainly has, and the Allison spin-on magnet is crystal-clean at every 25k change. I don't worry about the Allison at this hp level. As with anything else, YRMV.

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#2419587 - 10/29/11 11:16 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
Smokefan1977 Offline


Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 674
Loc: Gilbert, AZ
0087 is pretty much common with the Bullydog and PPE programmers as they are pretty aggressive on fueling. PPE has a shim kit that will help with the issue that works well, and it's only 9.00. Simple to install. The allison in the LBZ is a bit better but don't go thinking it's bulletproof and won't limp.
_________________________
2000 F350 7.3 4X4- Highly modded. Redline 15-40
99 F150 2wd. Mobil 0-40 MC820S
07 F150 2wd. Ultra 5-30 or Redline MC820S

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#2424204 - 11/03/11 03:27 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Smokefan1977]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
Originally Posted By: Smokefan1977
0087 is pretty much common with the Bullydog and PPE programmers as they are pretty aggressive on fueling. PPE has a shim kit that will help with the issue that works well, and it's only 9.00. Simple to install.


EFI Live is next on the mod list, so that problem will be resolved.


Originally Posted By: smokefan
The allison in the LBZ is a bit better but don't go thinking it's bulletproof and won't limp.


I suffer no such delusion. I've got funds earmarked for a Suncoast build already. Truth is, I'm kinda hopin' it'll blow up soon. If it doesn't, I'll just have it done when I get around to the EFI, 'cause that won't be any fun without a built tranny, anyway.

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#2425821 - 11/05/11 10:38 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
Smokefan1977 Offline


Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 674
Loc: Gilbert, AZ
You may speak with Mike at Ingelwood Transmissions. He is the best Allison builder and the cost is actually less then suncoast is. He uses a propiatary SC converter and many suncoast parts but does some of his own machining aswell. I have built many high HP Dmax's and my expierence with mike trannys have been 100% perfect. never a failure
_________________________
2000 F350 7.3 4X4- Highly modded. Redline 15-40
99 F150 2wd. Mobil 0-40 MC820S
07 F150 2wd. Ultra 5-30 or Redline MC820S

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#2428760 - 11/08/11 11:11 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Smokefan1977]
Ponch Offline


Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: Bay City Michigan
I knew this duramax investment was gonna be expensive!! NO I just cant leave it stock either...

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#2428976 - 11/08/11 02:58 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
m37charlie Offline


Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 1137
Loc: Alaska
I find that a good Fluke laser-pointed IR thermometer makes a good substitute for gauge-fever.

Charlie
_________________________
05 Unimog U500/Unicat camper/Delvac 1 SHC ACEA E4/E5
09 BMW X5 35d/Delvac1 LE 5W30
01 BMW 325xi M1 0W40
52 Dodge M37/Hercules diesel
79 BJ40 Landcruiser

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#2429523 - 11/09/11 04:57 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: m37charlie]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5639
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
I find that a good Fluke laser-pointed IR thermometer makes a good substitute for gauge-fever.

Charlie


Yeah - but it's hard to drive the rig at 60mph and take EGTs with your head under the hood ... grin2



Edited by dnewton3 (11/09/11 04:57 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
#2429570 - 11/09/11 06:54 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
Jim Allen Offline


Registered: 08/12/05
Posts: 4477
Loc: NW Ohio
My name is Jim and I'm a Gauge-o-Haulic. Don't tell me I don't need no stinking gauges. Of course... I can quit at any time.

_________________________
Jim Allen
Keepin' the Good Old Days of Four Wheeling Alive

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#2429751 - 11/09/11 10:24 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5639
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
LOL

I wondered how long it would take ...



Edited by dnewton3 (11/09/11 10:25 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
#2429755 - 11/09/11 10:31 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Jim Allen]
BoiseRob Offline


Registered: 12/09/06
Posts: 233
Loc: Idaho
Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
My name is Jim and I'm a Gauge-o-Haulic. Don't tell me I don't need no stinking gauges. Of course... I can quit at any time.


Jim.

I still see dash board so you have room for more. How about inlet air temp or a drive-shaft rotation gauge? lol

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#2429976 - 11/09/11 02:07 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Smokefan1977]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
Originally Posted By: Smokefan1977
You may speak with Mike at Ingelwood Transmissions. He is the best Allison builder and the cost is actually less then suncoast is. He uses a propiatary SC converter and many suncoast parts but does some of his own machining aswell. I have built many high HP Dmax's and my expierence with mike trannys have been 100% perfect. never a failure


No doubt Mike's one of the best Allison builders. He spent a bit of time on the phone with me when I installed my Transgo Jr. and had an 'extra parts left over' episode - helped me get it all straightened out and never asked anything in return. I've also spent a couple of dyno days with the guys down at Suncoast, though, and they're top-notch folks, as well. Since I'm in the Southeast, I've just been thinkin' it'd be easier, quicker, etc. to deal with them, but I'll definitely do an 'apples-to-apples' pricing check before I do either.

In all honesty, given my current cash-flow status, I'm hopin' that's a decision I won't have to make any time soon..


Edited by Meathead (11/09/11 02:09 PM)

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#2552264 - 02/29/12 11:23 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
Ponch Offline


Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: Bay City Michigan
"Meathead" did you go the full run with just one fram oil filter? Or did you change a few along the way? If NOT that is very impressive!

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#2576618 - 03/22/12 08:28 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
I've hit another OCI, and have another positive report from Blackstone. I was headed out to Arizona and back, pulling about 8,000 lbs, so I cut the interval just a bit short this time. It'll go about that distance longer on the next one. Blackstone's comments are there to be read, and they confirm what I'm doing is just fine. I agree with the idea that dino oil is perfectly good, but I drive so many miles, I'd be doing oil changes constantly. I also agree with the school of thought that synthetic is only worth it if you extend the OCIs, and I think 25k qualifies. Maybe I will go 30k next time..

http://meathead.smugmug.com/Trucks/Williebago-Upgrades/i-gSVQkXb/0/L/Blackstone-228089-L.jpg


Originally Posted By: Ponch
"Meathead" did you go the full run with just one fram oil filter? Or did you change a few along the way? If NOT that is very impressive!


I had that previous time, but based on what I saw of that filter after cutting it open, I moved to changing the filter mid-interval this time. I haven't cut this most recent filter yet, though.

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#2578299 - 03/24/12 05:04 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5639
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Very nice update!

AT this point, you need to start thinking about the condemnation levels you might set for yourself. The Fe is tracking with mileage and doing well. The Pb, Cu and Al are all VERY low on a "per mile" basis. The TBN is strong, the contamination almost non-existent.

Blackstone often takes a very conservative approach to recommending the extensions; only a few thousand miles at a time.

Some time ago I posted a link where some of the major diesel equipment manufaturers referenced their condemation limits. I would think 100ppm of Fe is reasonable. At that point, you could likley get near 50k miles out of this sump load, if the TBN and insolubles stay in control. Given your plan to FCI more often, that will also bolster the add pack with a bit of top off. If you did filter changes every 15k miles, and UOAs every 15k miles, I would not be suprised to see you capable of 45-50k miles, if all other things stay in tune!

Excellent example of safe, effective oil change extensions!


Edited by dnewton3 (03/24/12 05:04 PM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
#2800399 - 11/12/12 03:05 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
I reached another OCI, now extended even further (actually, even further than I intended...sort of). This one went 37,666 miles. Given Blackstone's comments, I think I'm gonna stick with 35,000 from here on out, but I may well talk myself into 40k with another filter change mid-interval.




Edited by Meathead (11/12/12 03:09 PM)

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#2801022 - 11/13/12 04:26 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5639
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING!
Congratulations!

You are using a syn for the intended purpose. You are eschewing the tired mantra of "OCI early and often" and proving that longer OCI runs are not only possible, but pay for themselves.

You wear metals are clearly settled; in particular the Al, Cr Pb and Cu are all so low that wear is (for all pratical purposes) nearly non-existent. Only the Fe is rising, and that is completely expected and normal. GM does not publish condemnation limits for fluids that I'm aware of, but I'd say perhaps 100ppm of Fe is a reasonable consideration. I would not worry about the Pb; it's well withing "normal" variation. Only if you saw a very significant escalation in your next UOA would I be concerned.

The fuel, coolant, silicon, FP, vis, insolubles and even TBN are all very good.

KUDOS!

This is a perfect example of how to get the ROI on a fluid.
So very often, I get harrased because I'm perceived to be against synthetics; nothing could be further from the truth. I am against wasting fluids; any fluids. What you have shown here is excellent dedication and control of your conditions, resulting in an excellent pay-back from your expenditure. You have far exceeded the ROI and are reaping the real, true benefits of using a syn. And it doesn't hurt that this is in a Dmax, which has proven itself to be one of the best-wearing light-duty diesel engines of all time.

Stay the course; I'd say running up to 40k miles is not a bad idea at all.

I would suggest you consider getting a Fumoto valve, so that you can sample prior to dumping, and then be able to make a decision before releasing the fluid. I've forgotten; do you have one? The great benefit to using one of these is that you could sample on some reasonable interval, and know how the fluid and metals are progressing along the way, rather than waiting to the end of a guestimated OCI.

A few more questions: are you still using a Fram PH9100 (the OCOD?). How often are your FCIs (filter change intervals)? Are you running a bypass, or just changing the filter on some predetermined interval? Whatever you're doing, it's clearly working well.


Edited by dnewton3 (11/13/12 04:34 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
#2801429 - 11/13/12 01:10 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: dnewton3]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Stay the course; I'd say running up to 40k miles is not a bad idea at all.


Yeah, the more I study this, the more I think I'll push just a bit further. I had hoped to make it to 50k ultimately, and may do so yet.


Originally Posted By: dnewton
I would suggest you consider getting a Fumoto valve, so that you can sample prior to dumping, and then be able to make a decision before releasing the fluid. I've forgotten; do you have one? The great benefit to using one of these is that you could sample on some reasonable interval, and know how the fluid and metals are progressing along the way, rather than waiting to the end of a guestimated OCI.


I do have a Fumoto installed, have since 156k. I obviously use it to pull the sample at the end of the OCI, and intend to use it mid-OCI, but I've never thought of using it at the end, as a means of determining whether to unload the oil or extend the interval further. I'll definitely use that idea in the future.


Originally Posted By: dnewton
A few more questions: are you still using a Fram PH9100 (the OCOD?). How often are your FCIs (filter change intervals)? Are you running a bypass, or just changing the filter on some predetermined interval? Whatever you're doing, it's clearly working well.


I changed the filter this time at about 11k, and just shy of 25k, the first was a Fram PH9100, but at the 11k swap, I made the switch to a Baldwin somethin'or'nother (can't recall the number right now). I bought a case of those, so I'll be using the Baldwins for quite a while. There's no bypass filtration. My intent was for the FCI to be roughly 1/3 of the OCI but, as noted, the OCI remains a moving target. I don't doubt the Baldwin filter is a better filter than the Fram was, but having gone 25k+ with the Fram in the past with no failure, I'm not too concerned about the FCIs. I don't want to push 'em that far - filters are too cheap, but I'll change 'em when it's convenient and I've got some time rather than getting too concerned about sticking to a rigid schedule.


Edited by Meathead (11/13/12 01:19 PM)

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#2801504 - 11/13/12 02:49 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5639
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
I love it! Big runs on nothing but a "normal" filter. Yes- Baldwins are good filters; if you have plenty of them, use them!

What I did this year with my Dmax is sample via my Fumoto, and send it in. Report came back fine; so I didn't OCI. I can easily go another year, given my operating pattern. I'll UOA again next fall, and make another determination. That is the beauty of the Fumoto valve; you can sample, get the info, and only then do you need to decide on any action required! Fumoto's not only make oil changes easy, they make oil sampling super easy!

I run my samples "live" (engine fully warmed up, engine running with truck in park, clean the valve, and pull the sample into the bottle while it idles. That is a true representation of the oil in its natural running state).


I would suggest considering this:
- At the next OCI, reset your OLM.
- Use the OLM to indiate when to take a sample; build some history. Each time the OLM indicates a change take another sample and gage the predicted lifecycle to see how much life is left in the lube; you'll be suprised how effective that can be
- Also use the OLM to FCI (filter change interval); it's an easy way to keep both in sync between the UOA and FCI patterns! Each FCI offers a bit of "top off" to replace the volume.

You follow that program, and you might just get to 50k miles!
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
#2801547 - 11/13/12 03:39 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: dnewton3]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I run my samples "live" (engine fully warmed up, engine running with truck in park, clean the valve, and pull the sample into the bottle while it idles. That is a true representation of the oil in its natural running state).


That's how I pull the sample, as well. I have yet to do a mid-interval UOA, though. My thinking thus far, and my only objection to the program you suggest, is that.. The whole objective here is to save money by guaranteeing I'm fully utilizing the oil. If I do 2 more UOAs during a 40k OCI, along with the one at the change, I've spent another $50 - roughly half the cost of the oil change itself. If I'm gonna spend that much money, I could just step back to a 30k OCI and drop the UOA altogether.

There certainly is value in knowing how the engine is wearing, and in the heads-up provided by the UOA with respect to any impending catastrophic component failures. The hesitation about spending the money doesn't take that into account, but therein lies the struggle.. I do believe I'm optimizing the ROI for the synthetic oil, but I'm also aware now, that I'm at (or approaching) a point of diminishing returns. I may well end up pushing to 45 or 50k, but more for academic reasons than financial ones. I can't imagine attempting to go beyond 50k, regardless what the UOA says.

All that said, I think I likely will start doing a single mid-interval UOA, if only for the sake of monitoring the engine wear, given the OCI is too long to catch many things that may have shown themselves had I done so. Also, at least on this next run, I may well pull the second sample at 40, then wait the 3-4 days required for Blackstone to provide results, before I make the decision whether to push to 45 or 50k. Either way, at this pace, it'll be mid-March next year before the mid-interval sample, so I'll post that report and ask that you and others make whatever suggestions you have again then.

Thanks for all the input.


Edited by Meathead (11/13/12 03:45 PM)

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#2801683 - 11/13/12 05:30 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5639
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Understood.

Very impressive return on you efforts, to be sure.
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
#3108381 - 08/28/13 06:45 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
Originally Posted By: Meathead
All that said, I think I likely will start doing a single mid-interval UOA, if only for the sake of monitoring the engine wear, given the OCI is too long to catch many things that may have shown themselves had I done so. Also, at least on this next run, I may well pull the second sample at 40, then wait the 3-4 days required for Blackstone to provide results, before I make the decision whether to push to 45 or 50k.


I didn't do that. Instead, I plowed my way all the way to a 50k OCI, and sent the sample in then. At the moment, I believe I will step the OCI back to 40-45k, just for peace of mind, but I'm in no way concerned that any harm has been done here. As I stated before, I felt compelled to go 50k one time, if only for academic reasons.

Again this time, the Baldwin filter was changed at (roughly) 15k and 32k, and make-up oil was added as needed. The indicated 8 quarts of make-up is perhaps a bit misleading, as the final 1.25 quarts was added within the final 6-8k. Regardless, even the 8 quarts falls well within what I understand to be normal consumption.

In general, this truck has been a dream to own and drive. 315,000 miles in just shy of 7 years, with just a few necessary repairs, none of which were engine related, and none of which would be considered major. I will likely ease up on the OCI stretch, but I fully intend and expect to push this truck well past the half-million mile mark, and expect I'll enjoy the next 315,000 every bit as much as I have the last.

I'll be interested to see your thoughts wrt the condemnation limits here, Mr. Newton..




Edited by Meathead (08/28/13 06:54 PM)

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#3108395 - 08/28/13 07:00 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
Clevy Offline


Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 7437
Loc: Saskatoon canada
So let me get this straight.
You ran a fram orange can 25000 miles. And the oil showed low insols,which means filtration wasn't compromised.
Considering how much mud and soot a diesel spews,and you used a low tier filter,and this low tier filter didn't plug up nor fail at 25000 miles.
If that doesn't shut up the 5000 mile filter change mantra so many here believe in then nothing will.

Thanks for the post. I just learned that even 10000 mile filter change intervals may even be over-doing it.
Awesome.
_________________________
2006 Charger RT
Miles x 2 per oil filter

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#3108412 - 08/28/13 07:16 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Clevy]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
Originally Posted By: Clevy
So let me get this straight.
You ran a fram orange can 25000 miles. And the oil showed low insols,which means filtration wasn't compromised.
Considering how much mud and soot a diesel spews,and you used a low tier filter,and this low tier filter didn't plug up nor fail at 25000 miles.
If that doesn't shut up the 5000 mile filter change mantra so many here believe in then nothing will.

Thanks for the post. I just learned that even 10000 mile filter change intervals may even be over-doing it.
Awesome.


You're correct, I did run the Fram filter to 25k without a failure. Read closer, though - during the interval previous this one, I switched to a Baldwin filter mid-interval, and went 37k on that oil load. On this most recent one, I've gone 50k, with two mid-interval filter changes.

I believe your both your suggestion and the implied prediction are both correct: that should put the 5,000 mile FCI nonsense to rest...but it won't. Given a 'higher tier' filter, particularly, I believe an FCI before 15,000 is throwing money away.


Edited by Meathead (08/28/13 07:21 PM)

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#3112357 - 09/02/13 05:54 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5639
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
I would say that you've found a reasonable, practical limit to your OCI plan. 50k miles has put you near a typical condemnation point (perhaps upper limit of 100ppm for Fe), and yet your other metals were no where near any typical limit.

Your vis is creeping up, and even though the insolubles are in good shape, it's likely that your oxidation has caused thickening to the vis. It's not anywhere near dangerous, but it's telling you that things are changing, and they are not likely to be linear, and so the thickening would escalate if you continued.

Your wear rates, even at 50k miles, are commendable! Think of this folks: 50k miles and the Al and Cr are crazy LOW! There is no appreciable wear at the pistons or rings at all. The Fe will always be cumulative, and yet you averaged around 2ppm/1k miles over 50k miles! Even the Pb (which some might point to) is extremely low on a "per mile" basis.

The occasional top-off's have kept the TBN replenished. It would be great to see how TAN acts in concert; perhaps as you continue your UOAs, treat us all to some more info and get TAN along with TBN.

This is a nice showing for T6, but frankly the success is coming from your active participation in the OCI/UOA plan. I would expect that other good syns would do as well, because of how well you are tracking and using the data.

50k mile OCIs would be a practical limit here, and I would agree that running a few of these back to back would give you some true long-term ranges and trends. You can scale back, but there really isn't any reason to do so. When you get out this far, you should be letting the UOA data tell you when to OCI, and right now (this one example) shows 50k miles is safe and effective.

Further, excellent proof of how long filters can really perform, and how little they shift the wear data if one does shorter OCI/FCI plans. A clean running engine does not load up a filter much at all. The filter will certainly catch the larger particulate, but the frequency of those event is actually quite rare, and therefore the filter media rarely will saturate to a point of blinding off, in a healthy engine.

This is, without any doubt, proof of how a lube maintenace program is supposed to be run. The engine is in fine shape. The lube was used to a practical limit where further use would be of some risk. Rather than letting the odometer dictate your actions, you are using your brain to set reasonable condemnation limits, and as the data develops, you are actively managing the system as a whole.

Kudos, Meathead! You are one of the very few that actually get what UOAs and true "predictive maintenance" are all about. You leave most other BITOGers in the silica trail.


Edited by dnewton3 (09/02/13 05:59 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
#3112929 - 09/02/13 07:22 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: dnewton3]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I would say that you've found a reasonable, practical limit to your OCI plan.

......

Kudos, Meathead!


Thank you, sir. I'll change my plan about what to do next 437 times between now and 40k, but I'll post up again with the next round of results.

Thanks again for your analysis.

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#3112947 - 09/02/13 07:29 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
DNVDMAX Offline


Registered: 11/20/07
Posts: 170
Loc: Alaska
Meathead, nice uoa and nice truck.

Did you run the tuner the whole 50k? Also, is your egr blocked?
_________________________
06 GMC 2500HD DMAX EFILIVE RT6 5w-40 BALDWIN
12 VERSA SEDAN Kendall SemiSyn 5w-30 Puralotor P1

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#3116473 - 09/06/13 06:48 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: DNVDMAX]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
Originally Posted By: DNVDMAX
Meathead, nice uoa and nice truck.

Did you run the tuner the whole 50k? Also, is your egr blocked?


Thanks. Yes, the tuner's been on since about 60k, and no, the egr is intact.

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#3122101 - 09/11/13 09:43 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
morepwr Offline


Registered: 01/17/12
Posts: 1298
Loc: ventura, ca
It took me a while to read and digest all the info here, but I have to say thank you for this thread! Very interesting read and since I have an older Duramax it sure makes me re-think OCI.

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#3122581 - 09/12/13 12:24 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: dnewton3]
stockrex Offline


Registered: 01/08/06
Posts: 1332
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I love it! Big runs on nothing but a "normal" filter. Yes- Baldwins are good filters; if you have plenty of them, use them!

What I did this year with my Dmax is sample via my Fumoto, and send it in. Report came back fine; so I didn't OCI. I can easily go another year, given my operating pattern. I'll UOA again next fall, and make another determination. That is the beauty of the Fumoto valve; you can sample, get the info, and only then do you need to decide on any action required! Fumoto's not only make oil changes easy, they make oil sampling super easy!

I run my samples "live" (engine fully warmed up, engine running with truck in park, clean the valve, and pull the sample into the bottle while it idles. That is a true representation of the oil in its natural running state).


I would suggest considering this:
- At the next OCI, reset your OLM.
- Use the OLM to indiate when to take a sample; build some history. Each time the OLM indicates a change take another sample and gage the predicted lifecycle to see how much life is left in the lube; you'll be suprised how effective that can be
- Also use the OLM to FCI (filter change interval); it's an easy way to keep both in sync between the UOA and FCI patterns! Each FCI offers a bit of "top off" to replace the volume.

You follow that program, and you might just get to 50k miles!


Dave,
Do you have a dpf on your dmax? what year is your dmax? Sorry, being lazy here.

Mine is 08 and I think I do not have the 9th injector so fuel dilution is a major concern.

very impressive indeed,
_________________________
07Ridgeline:33k,08Dmax:14k,10Fit:40k:90Toyota1Ton:88k
Oil Whisperer!*Fear the DINO*

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#3122584 - 09/12/13 12:26 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: dnewton3]
stockrex Offline


Registered: 01/08/06
Posts: 1332
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
I find that a good Fluke laser-pointed IR thermometer makes a good substitute for gauge-fever.

Charlie


Yeah - but it's hard to drive the rig at 60mph and take EGTs with your head under the hood ... grin2


can you read the EGT off the ECM/ECU?
_________________________
07Ridgeline:33k,08Dmax:14k,10Fit:40k:90Toyota1Ton:88k
Oil Whisperer!*Fear the DINO*

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#3124425 - 09/14/13 07:44 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: stockrex]
dnewton3 Offline



Registered: 05/14/07
Posts: 5639
Loc: Indianapolis, IN
Originally Posted By: stockrex
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I love it! Big runs on nothing but a "normal" filter. Yes- Baldwins are good filters; if you have plenty of them, use them!

What I did this year with my Dmax is sample via my Fumoto, and send it in. Report came back fine; so I didn't OCI. I can easily go another year, given my operating pattern. I'll UOA again next fall, and make another determination. That is the beauty of the Fumoto valve; you can sample, get the info, and only then do you need to decide on any action required! Fumoto's not only make oil changes easy, they make oil sampling super easy!

I run my samples "live" (engine fully warmed up, engine running with truck in park, clean the valve, and pull the sample into the bottle while it idles. That is a true representation of the oil in its natural running state).


I would suggest considering this:
- At the next OCI, reset your OLM.
- Use the OLM to indiate when to take a sample; build some history. Each time the OLM indicates a change take another sample and gage the predicted lifecycle to see how much life is left in the lube; you'll be suprised how effective that can be
- Also use the OLM to FCI (filter change interval); it's an easy way to keep both in sync between the UOA and FCI patterns! Each FCI offers a bit of "top off" to replace the volume.

You follow that program, and you might just get to 50k miles!


Dave,
Do you have a dpf on your dmax? what year is your dmax? Sorry, being lazy here.

Mine is 08 and I think I do not have the 9th injector so fuel dilution is a major concern.

very impressive indeed,


I have an '06; no DPF.

The Dmax chronology goes like this, IIRC ...
LB7: no EGR, no DPF, no regens, no closed loop PCV (it dumped to atmosphere)
LLY: some EGR, no DPF, no regens, closed loop PCV now added
LBZ: a bit more EGR, no DPF, no regens, closed loop PCV
LMM: even more EGR, DPF added, regens run in-cylinder, closed loop PCV
LML: still more EGR, DPF, regens run downstream of engine via 9th injector, closed loop PCV,


This UOA series shows how wear become very predictable in a healthy engine. Note that the Al, Cr, Pb and Cu are still very low after 50k miles!!!!! The Fe is very steady. Super steady. His effective rate of Fe wear after 50k miles was no different than those who OCI at 10k miles! His average ppm/1k miles was just as good as those who change oil every 5k miles! In fact, it is actually BETTER, but we are talking about fractional ppm here.

Folks, this is how to use good data and make solid decisions. EVERY indicator here shows that wear was in control, contamination was very minimal, and he actually used the lube to a practical condemnation limit, rather than some arbitrary OCI set in one's fear-laden noodle.


Edited by dnewton3 (09/14/13 07:46 AM)
_________________________
Conventionals vs. Synthetics isn't about which is "better"; it's about which lasts longer, while assuring safe operation, in relation to cost. Any product can be over or under utilized. The same applies to filters.
Make an informed decision; first consider your operating conditions, next determine your maintenance plan, and then pick your lube and filter. Don't do it the other way around ...

Top
#3423348 - 07/13/14 08:37 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: dnewton3]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I would say that you've found a reasonable, practical limit to your OCI plan. 50k miles has put you near a typical condemnation point (perhaps upper limit of 100ppm for Fe), and yet your other metals were no where near any typical limit.

Your vis is creeping up, and even though the insolubles are in good shape, it's likely that your oxidation has caused thickening to the vis. It's not anywhere near dangerous, but it's telling you that things are changing, and they are not likely to be linear, and so the thickening would escalate if you continued.



Thickening is indeed what has occurred. Unfortunately, I only made one mid-interval filter change at about 20k, so that may have played a part in the lead accumulation.

I bought a fifth wheel last October, and went to Michigan to get it. Since then, I've taken it on a couple of relatively short trips - trailer has 2,320 miles now. I understand that heavy towing can affect wear, etc, but I don't believe this limited amount could've had any significant impact. I've also towed my enclosed trailer approximately 4,000 miles during this OCI, but that's roughly the same as during previous intervals.




Again, I welcome any questions anyone here may have about this. Thanks also to dnewton for your insight and suggestions.

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#3424018 - 07/14/14 12:07 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
Jim_Truett Offline


Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 97
Loc: San Diego, California
Truly stellar results from your engine. If only GM could have put a Dana 60 under the front instead of their IFS I would have bought one in '08 instead of my F250.

How have your injectors and HPFP held up? I have an LB7 in my work truck on its third set of injectors at 135,000, and there is a leak somewhere in the fuel system. The HPFP loses prime after sitting for a few days.
_________________________
2008 F250 6.4 PowerStroke 32k
2008 Nissan Versa 128K
2005 Honda Pilot 205k
1999 Acura 3.0CL 168k
1963 Nova SS 83k
2013 Mahindra 3016HST 49hrs

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#3424156 - 07/14/14 08:05 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Jim_Truett]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
Originally Posted By: Jim_Truett
Truly stellar results from your engine. If only GM could have put a Dana 60 under the front instead of their IFS I would have bought one in '08 instead of my F250.

How have your injectors and HPFP held up? I have an LB7 in my work truck on its third set of injectors at 135,000, and there is a leak somewhere in the fuel system. The HPFP loses prime after sitting for a few days.


Injectors and CP3 have been flawless throughout the 367,000 miles. *knock on wood* You've no doubt already researched this, but I'd start with the OEM filter housing on your LB7 - you can get rebuild kits if it's just the o-rings leaking down, or could also replace the entire thing for relatively little expense.

FWIW, the front end, transfer case, the entire 4wd system has been absolutely trouble free, as well.

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#3425864 - 07/15/14 07:34 PM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
dustyroads Offline


Registered: 05/13/13
Posts: 303
Loc: upstate NY
I have to give you credit for getting the most from your oil. It looks pretty good but looking a couple samples back, I like the looks of the 37k sample better. That was still good for more but I thought maybe 40k-45k would get you good use without so much thickening.

Then again, I'm not sure if the oxidation in your 50k oil was harming anything other than fuel mileage.

The lead issue is out of my league (other than guessing it's a bearing problem). Have you checked around any Dmax sights for any other's experiences?

Again, I give you credit for having the guts to extend that far. I would just want to sample at the same time that you change the filter to make sure all was going well. Just my two cents.

Very interesting info. Thanks for posting!
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#3428086 - 07/18/14 12:46 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
Jim_Truett Offline


Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 97
Loc: San Diego, California
Originally Posted By: Meathead
Originally Posted By: Jim_Truett
Truly stellar results from your engine. If only GM could have put a Dana 60 under the front instead of their IFS I would have bought one in '08 instead of my F250.

How have your injectors and HPFP held up? I have an LB7 in my work truck on its third set of injectors at 135,000, and there is a leak somewhere in the fuel system. The HPFP loses prime after sitting for a few days.


Injectors and CP3 have been flawless throughout the 367,000 miles. *knock on wood* You've no doubt already researched this, but I'd start with the OEM filter housing on your LB7 - you can get rebuild kits if it's just the o-rings leaking down, or could also replace the entire thing for relatively little expense.

FWIW, the front end, transfer case, the entire 4wd system has been absolutely trouble free, as well.


The housing has been gone through twice now. If I owned it I would have replaced the entire housing, but it has been random lately so not too urgent. A few pumps of the primer gets it going every time.

The front end is more of a personal preference. I just like solid axles. I killed the front end in the work truck once. I hit a concrete structure at 3mph (seriously) turning right at full lock. Snapped the left tie rod, bent the right, damaged drag link and pitman. The truck has a big service body and is too heavy, but the damage just seemed excessive. The only evidence of the hit was a 1/2" crack in the OEM plastic hub cap.
_________________________
2008 F250 6.4 PowerStroke 32k
2008 Nissan Versa 128K
2005 Honda Pilot 205k
1999 Acura 3.0CL 168k
1963 Nova SS 83k
2013 Mahindra 3016HST 49hrs

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#3428190 - 07/18/14 07:08 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Jim_Truett]
Meathead Offline


Registered: 04/11/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Upstate SC
Originally Posted By: dustyroads
I have to give you credit for getting the most from your oil. It looks pretty good but looking a couple samples back, I like the looks of the 37k sample better. That was still good for more but I thought maybe 40k-45k would get you good use without so much thickening.


That's exactly what I'm thinking. As I believe I've noted before, my compulsion to stretch to 50k was as much academic as anything, and once I got the first one and everything looked so good, I thought I might keep it up. On this UOA, with the lead accumulation, etc, and given the fact I've got that fifth wheel now and have been towing my smaller enclosed trailer a bit more, I'm thinking I'll drop back to 40k or so.

What I need to do first, though, is be more diligent about my filter changes at 15k, and sample either mid-interval at 25k, or just at the same time as the second filter change at 30k (more likely). That was my intention on this oil load, but, well...I just got slack, I guess. If that sample gives some indication that the lead accumulation in this oil load may have been due largely to my neglecting the filter, then I may go 50k this one more time, just to get a more scientific, apples-to-apples comparison. If that 25/30k sample looks like it's tracking to match this one, I'll probably dump at 40k.


Originally Posted By: dustyroads
Then again, I'm not sure if the oxidation in your 50k oil was harming anything other than fuel mileage.


I'll have to reveal my ignorance.. Is there reliable evidence that oxidation can cause significant fuel mileage loss? I've honestly never even considered that, but HAVE been chasing an approximate 1 mpg loss in fuel efficiency for the last 6 months or so.


Originally Posted By: dustyroads
The lead issue is out of my league (other than guessing it's a bearing problem). Have you checked around any Dmax sights for any other's experiences?


No, I haven't. It may just be denial, though I have read something here and there that suggests it's nothing to be concerned about on such a long OCI. If anybody else here has any insight on that, I'd love to hear it.



Originally Posted By: Jim_Truett
The front end is more of a personal preference. I just like solid axles. I killed the front end in the work truck once. I hit a concrete structure at 3mph (seriously) turning right at full lock. Snapped the left tie rod, bent the right, damaged drag link and pitman. The truck has a big service body and is too heavy, but the damage just seemed excessive. The only evidence of the hit was a 1/2" crack in the OEM plastic hub cap.


I understand completely. Truth is, even if only from an aesthetics standpoint, if I had my 'druthers, I'd have a solid front end, too. I actually like the look of the Fords, and prefer the "stance" of a 250/350 over the Chevrolets, but the value of the Duramax and, more importantly, the Allison, FAR outweighed any of those preferences at the time I purchased this truck. There are, no doubt, people who've had experiences with Chevy HD trucks that're counter to mine, but this truck has been as dead-reliable and strong as any vehicle I've ever even known of, much less owned myself. I could list off it's merits, but the list is too long.

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#3435098 - 07/25/14 09:16 AM Re: '07 LBZ UOA @ 175,000 [Re: Meathead]
A_Harman Offline


Registered: 10/01/10
Posts: 4320
Loc: Michigan
I agree with dustyroads that the 37K mile analysis looked better than the 50K mile analyses. Viscosity went up, which could indicate oxidation, and the higher viscosity could be affecting your fuel mileage, but probably not to the extent of 1 mpg. More concerning is the lead has been trending up since the 37K analysis, and the lead wear rate was higher during the last 50k interval.

TBN was still very high on the last analysis, but it would be nice to see a TAN number. Maybe high TAN is making the lead trend up?


Edited by A_Harman (07/25/14 09:18 AM)
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