Wheel Lug Nuts vs Bolts.

[George7941]

I cannot think of a single advantage to using bolts instead of studs + lug nuts on wheels. My old Beetles had the bolts, my friend's BMW X5 has them, another friend's work vans are Sprinters and they have them.

It is more work to mount the wheel on the hub when using bolts and the X5 comes with a tool used to align the wheel to the threaded holes in the hub.

In cases of damage (cross threading, loose wheel) it is a lot less work to simply replace a stud than it is to try and repair the threads in a hub or, worse, replace the entire hub.

So, why do the German manufacturers persist with the use of wheel bolts? Is it just arrogance and a refusal to admit that, maybe, there is a better way?

 

[Astro14]

My Volvos have bolts. MB has bolts...

Maybe it's a euro thing...is there a rate of corrosion difference?

I notice that studs and lugs rust faster than the bolts, the bolts are more protected...I haven't heard of anyone snapping a bolt, but rusted lugs snap studs all the time...

 

[dparm]

This discussion comes up once a month on the Audi boards. I've never seen a clear-cut answer. Even my father, an automotive engineer of 30+ years, agrees that the Germans do it just to make things difficult.

Bolts are always easier to replace than studs, but studs win on convenience.

 

[ComfyShorts]

Originally Posted By: dparm

Bolts are always easier to replace than studs, but studs win on convenience.



Until some jiffy lube kid cross threads the bolt and you need to replace the hub.

 

[Silk]

I've never seen a wheel bolt break or strip - I couldn't possibly count the number of broken and stripped studs I've replaced over the years.

 

[river_rat]

Hmmm Interesting points. I have one of each kind. Personally never had a problem with either kind in 30 years of driving 22 cars...yet.

 

[George7941]

My BMW motorcycle, which I love dearly and have owned for two decades, has some annoying quirks which really should have been redesigned long ago, but, I guess, BMW engineering is resistant to change. The steering lock is really awkward compared to the ones on Japanese motorcycles. The grab bar that you hold on to with your right hand when pushing the bike is too far forward and makes it awkward to push the bike uphill.

 

[Silver_civic]

Any VW, Porsche, Audi folks here ever try aligning those bolts up with the wheel holes in the hub of one? You dont want to either or even attempt it while on the side of the road with pi** poor conditions/bad visibilty/ or without any flashlight on you.

just my two cents and yes it happened to me and a friend 2 times; not fun

 

[Michael_P]

I installed studs in my old W124 Benz to save my frustration. Made zee wheels much easier to install. The threads on the rotor side were slightly undercut so it provided more resistance compared with the lug nut. I never had a wheel work loose.

 

[rshunter]

Originally Posted By: Silver_civic
Any VW, Porsche, Audi folks here ever try aligning those bolts up with the wheel holes in the hub of one? You dont want to either or even attempt it while on the side of the road with pi** poor conditions/bad visibilty/ or without any flashlight on you.

just my two cents and yes it happened to me and a friend 2 times; not fun

Never had a problem, but then I use something like this... Wheel Hanger - Installation Guide Tool

Oh, and between bolts and studs, I'll take bolts every time. I've had many studs snap over the years, but never had an issue with a bolt.

 

[Vikas]

When somebody says they never had a problem with the bolts but snapped lots of studs, do they take in to account the relative ratio of bolts vs studs they have operated upon? Is it like 5:95?

 

[Silver_civic]

You can have those darn bolts and every year vw, audi and porsche always change the special "lock nut" thats with the spare wheel/tire. Not fun either. I will take a stud anyday over a bolt.

 

[George7941]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
I notice that studs and lugs rust faster than the bolts, the bolts are more protected...I haven't heard of anyone snapping a bolt, but rusted lugs snap studs all the time...

Notice how clean the lug nuts and studs are on my truck? The centre caps have built-in lug nut caps that thread over the lug nuts and keep them super clean.

I have never had a damaged wheel stud or oil drain plug or oil pan drain threads or .....

 

[mechtech2]

Originally Posted By: Silk
I've never seen a wheel bolt break or strip - I couldn't possibly count the number of broken and stripped studs I've replaced over the years.


Same here... and I go back a ways!

A bolt is very good, and involves 1/2 the parts.
A bit harder to install and line up the wheel, of course.
But umpteen jillion studs and nuts, with the added trouble of assembling the stud, is a very real cost to mfrs..

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: rshunter
Originally Posted By: Silver_civic
Any VW, Porsche, Audi folks here ever try aligning those bolts up with the wheel holes in the hub of one? You dont want to either or even attempt it while on the side of the road with pi** poor conditions/bad visibilty/ or without any flashlight on you.

just my two cents and yes it happened to me and a friend 2 times; not fun

Never had a problem, but then I use something like this... Wheel Hanger - Installation Guide Tool

Oh, and between bolts and studs, I'll take bolts every time. I've had many studs snap over the years, but never had an issue with a bolt.


Then why do high performance engine builds use studs instead of bolts for the heads?

 

[Silver_civic]

You are now talking about "high performance engine builds" or whatever; not wheels and wheel studs or screws. Heck; any dumb person making like over 470hp like my brother is with his 05' and 04 GTO'd surely be smart enough to use studs in that application and oh yeah; those studs are very carefully and specially rolled and treated. I saw some videos about ARP FASTENERS. Interesting.

 

[Silver_civic]

I stand corrected about "good quality bolts" as gm still uses bolts for the cylinder heads as I have done few cyl head jobs in my time at my work on dodges and gm's and few fords, and those bolts are not just run of the mill bolts.


have a good night!

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Silver_civic
You are now talking about "high performance engine builds" or whatever; not wheels and wheel studs or screws. Heck; any dumb person making like over 470hp like my brother is with his 05' and 04 GTO'd surely be smart enough to use studs in that application and oh yeah; those studs are very carefully and specially rolled and treated. I saw some videos about ARP FASTENERS. Interesting.


Yes, the ARP fasteners are fantastic; studs OR bolts. But studs are preferred in the high HP builds. Why? And doesn't this same train of logic apply to wheels? Do transport trucks use studs or bolts?

 

[Silver_civic]

Do not know about transport trucks as I would say studs if they're hauling freight. Have to ask my dad this question.

 

[mechanicx]

I was going to say a wheel stud doesn't rust any more than a bolt if it has its cover or an acorn lug nut. I sort of dislike having to unscrew those separate plastic lug covers GM used but they do a very good job of keep rust off of both the nut and the stud threads.