Engine life, synthetic vs. conventional

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: johnnydc
Originally Posted By: exranger06
ALL of those engine guarantees are worthless, borderline scams. Read the fine print, and you'll see they don't actually cover anything.
Didn't change your oil? Not covered.
Oil somehow all leaked out and engine seized? Not covered.
Timing belt or chain snapped? Not covered.
Engine overheated or had some other failure not related to oil? Not covered.
Normal wear and tear, like worn piston rings, leaky gaskets, and valve seals? NOT COVERED.There, I just listed every possible way an engine can fail, and these "guarantees" don't cover ANY of it. They can guarantee your engine to 6 million miles if they want. It doesn’t matter when they just tell you to read the fine print and tell you you’re screwed. Total scam.
ALSO AGREE!!!


I hear ya! All the oil company warranties are worthless marketing tools.

 

[El_Schaf]

Most certainly everything everyone is saying above is correct. Synthetics are for extending drain intervals for 99% of drivers. Proper lubrication is achieved with "in spec" oils of either type. Too many miles/dillution/extreme heat will adversely affect all oil, and are not related to the oil. Some exceptions are extreme cold temprature use when low pour points may be advantageous or racing conditions where oils are subject to alot of abuse.

As said many times before, the cheapest API oil and filter, changed as appropriate for the oil's condition, will allow a vehicle to run well past body decay. Its all about paying attention to your car's needs, much like a wife I guess.

 

[El_Schaf]

More to the point I guess - 300,000 mile cars are about owners, not oils.

 

[aquariuscsm]

My dad`s 1990 Olds 88 passed the 500,000 mile mark years ago. It ran on 3/3000 oci`s of Pennzoil yb 10W30 since new. He gave it away to a family member awhile back when he got a new car,and it`s still going strong! Doesn`t use or leak a single bit of oil.

 

[Quattro Pete]

It's a matter of buying a warranty when no warranty is really needed. It's like buying a warranty to ensure that the Sun rises tomorrow. But since technically the warranty is free, and you need to buy oil anyway, then you might as well stick to the same oil and have this warranty in an unlikely event that you do have an oil related engine failure. However, even mineral oils are good for quite a bit longer than 3K miles nowadays, so it'd seem like a waste to have to change it so often. Even more so if we were to consider synthetic...

 

[El_Schaf]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
It's a matter of buying a warranty when no warranty is really needed. It's like buying a warranty to ensure that the Sun rises tomorrow. But since technically the warranty is free, and you need to buy oil anyway, then you might as well stick to the same oil and have this warranty in an unlikely event that you do have an oil related engine failure. However, even mineral oils are good for quite a bit longer than 3K miles nowadays, so it'd seem like a waste to have to change it so often. Even more so if we were to consider synthetic...


I would agree with your logic since in most cases I would do the same thing, except when you look at the details of that warranty, it is darn expensive compared to normal drain intervals. Also, if we are talking the valvoline type guarantee, where conventional is 150K, that only covers 50K past many powertrain warranties, and will cost over 2x as much in oil changes in most modern Oil Life monitoring vehicles. Say 50 extra changes at $18 a change = $900 for the 50K past warranty. The odds of oil related failure (see: unprovable/improbable) from 100-150 given a mandatory 3K interval are astronomical. Id rather have the $900. The extra cost per change and extra changes grow much higher when considering the intervals and cost per change in a 300K analysis.

I hate marketing...probably because I'm an accountant

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: El_Schaf

except when you look at the details of that warranty, it is darn expensive compared to normal drain intervals.

Yup. That was basically the point I was trying to make by saying that "even mineral oils are good for quite a bit longer than 3K miles nowadays, so it'd seem like a waste to have to change it so often." Doesn't make sense.

 

[Steve S]

First what does oil do? Oil keeps the parts seperated. Then there are the additive packages that protect when the oil film isn't enough, additives to extend the live of the oil etc. If x oil keeps the parts seperated has the adds to protect and make the oil last for the interval,you are not going to really see any advantage having an oil that keeps the parts twice as seperated or can run longer but isn't run longer is of little advantage. IMO most syn oils aren't much better than dino oils.

 

[El_Schaf]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
IMO most syn oils aren't much better than dino oils.


STATEMENT!

Completely true when looking at functionality.

 

[fdcg27]

Engine failures in any engine using an oil meeting somewhere within sight of what is specified by the manufacturer changed on any reasonable basis (much less the ridiculously frequent changes Valvo requires) are probably close to non-existent.
Valvoline also knows that most owners won't have a car for 150K, much less 300K.
So, Valvoline can offer something that sounds compelling and use this in their marketing, while taking zero risk of having to pay for any engines.
Clever, probably far more so than what some other blenders use in their marketing, particularly Castrol.
I can't really frown on good marketing.
It isn't even dishonest.
Use an oil correct for your engine, keep it changed (not as often as Valvoline says you should, though) and you'll enjoy long engine life.
Everyone here already knows that, though.

 

[El_Schaf]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27

I can't really frown on good marketing.
It isn't even dishonest.


That's what I hate about it, lol.

 

[mbell1968]

I have to say I am very surprised by the replies who all believe synthetic oil will not extend engine life over dino. I thought it was an accepted fact that it WOULD, why else pay double or more for it, even with extended oci's. I understand most engine wear occurs at startup and with better protection at startup from synthetic, I thought this was a no brainer. Anyone with me that it does? Other than a marketing tool by Vavoline (which I don't believe it is 100% anyway, a 300K warranty on conventional seems very high, and probably lead to more warranty claims). Where are the synthetic users/lovers????????

 

[GMFan]

The engine will usually outlast the frame of the car. I do not believe that synthetic will provide any more engine life than a conventional lubricant...what matters is that you use appropriate drain intervals. The evidence of vehicles such as taxis or fleet vehicles running bulk conventional oil for 300,000+ miles proves that the engine running any API oil for the recommended drain interval will allow the engine to outlast the rest of the vehicle.

I use synthetic now as my vehicle requires 0w20 for warranty requirements, but I also plan on using the max 7,500 mile drain interval to at least gain back some of the cost of synthetic oil. Once my warranty is up, I will switch to conventional 5w20.

IMHO, the only benefit of using a synthetic is extended drain intervals or severe temperature conditions (i.e. operating conditions in the single digits or below 0 degrees F) for faster lubrication on engine starting.

 

[mongo161]

The marketing of the synthetic oil and the guarantee promised are conflicting statements.

The selling point for synthetic oil and the marketing of synthetic oil is a "longer use" oil. Which means longer use than a conventional oil.

However, the guarantee, from the company, for the synthetic oil is only good if you change the synthetic oil every 4K miles, which is the same frequency as a conventional oil.

This is the same double talk that has so many consumers brainwashed into thinking that "Synthetic Oil is Superior".

Many people, from the UOAs that I see posted, change their synthetic oil on the same time table as a conventional oil user at 5K.

The users of synthetic oil, have been lulled into thinking, that they will never get a sludged engine if they only use synthetic oil and their auto will smile with a sparkling, white teeth smile, spotless and clean.

From what I've read, most of the recent sludge issues have occurred because of poor engine design and/or lack of proper maintenance by the owner and not the properly spec'd oil used during an OCI.

IMO...A consumer, using today's quality Dino oils, or the Marketing expensive hyped up synthetic oils, changes their oil within a reasonable use/time frame, as recommended by the automobile manufacturer, they should not have sludge issues.

IMO...most people who use synthetic oils and change them out before 5K miles are the proven success stories for the marketing geniuses. It just proves that marketing works on the fears and emotions of the consumer.

The smart people are the synthetic oil marketing reps....not the consumer who uses expensive synthetic oil for 5K OCIs when they should be using Dino or a blend.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: mbell1968
I have to say I am very surprised by the replies who all believe synthetic oil will not extend engine life over dino. I thought it was an accepted fact that it WOULD, why else pay double or more for it, even with extended oci's.

The main advantage of synthetic is that it can be used over extended OCI, therefore saving you time and money in the long run. But this Valvoline warranty throws this main advantage out the window by confining you to 3K OCI regardless if you use synthetic or mineral.

IMO, synthetic oil DOES NOT extend engine life over dino. It just allows you to not have to change the oil so often.

 

[JustinH]

Most people won't keep a car long enough to wear out an engine. I use cheap dino and love it.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
Didn't change your oil? Not covered.
Oil somehow all leaked out and engine seized? Not covered.
Timing belt or chain snapped? Not covered.
Engine overheated or had some other failure not related to oil? Not covered.
Normal wear and tear, like worn piston rings, leaky gaskets, and valve seals? NOT COVERED.
....Total scam.

Forgot a few:
Body rust out? Not covered.
Collision damage? Not covered.
Car stolen? Not covered.
Right. Those lube manufacturers are totally scamming you with their oil only guarantee.

(I actually thought your post was intended to be serious for a second.)

 

[quietriot]

i doubt use of a synthetic, will extend your engine life, but maybe oci?

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
IMO most syn oils aren't much better than dino oils.

It is true for OCI of 7-8k miles or less in most engines. For OCI of 12-15k miles or more, syn oil is needed in most engines.

Mercedes Benz paid out more than $100 million in early 2000's for sludge engines with FSS up to 15k miles OCI using dino.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: quietriot
i doubt use of a synthetic, will extend your engine life, but maybe oci?

Well perhaps they flow better at start-up as they are supposed to, and that would reduce wear somewhat--all other things being equal. I use synthetics, but there isn't as much difference between most synthetics and conventionals as there used to be.