Air Cooled Engines and SAE 30?

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Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Nowhere in the Kawasaki engine manual does it specify that HDEO is required.


But, my relatively new manual specifies Api service classification :SF,SG,SH,SJ, inferring a higher additive level oil.

There are two schools on this oil choice issue. You have demonstrated that using non HDEO oil has worked well for you.


I use all kinds of oil and I've never had an oil that didn't work for me.

The closest thing I've had to a problem was excessive spark plug fouling and oil consumption in my B&S Kool Bore engine while using Mobil 1 5W30 synthetic. Otherwise, no issues.

Here are the data on FormulaShell 10W40:

FormulaShell 10W-40 is a premium high performance multigrade motor oil formulated to provide wide temperature range engine protection. FormulaShell exceeds all automobile and light duty truck requirements for gasoline and turbocharged engines where an SAE 10W-40 engine oil is recommended. This oil meets API Classification SL and can be used in place of SJ, SH, and SG rated oils. Follow manufacturer''s recommendations for viscosity grade and API Service Category. API Service SL. Recommended for high temperature and heavy duty, severe type service such as hauling boats and camping trailers at sustained high speeds. Increased protection against the formation of sludge, varnish and rust.

According to the above, it would appear that it's more than suitable for the application.
 
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
But, my relatively new manual specifies Api service classification :SF,SG,SH,SJ, inferring a higher additive level oil.
As does the manual for my brand new Subaru/Robin generator. My question is: where the heck am I supposed to buy SF oil? That spec has been obsolete since 1988...even SJ is 3 iterations old and no longer available.

FTR, I'm using RT5 10W-30 but I doubt I'll live long enough to see whether it makes any difference.
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Originally Posted By: big_impact
Isnt the sm/sn supossed to superseed sf/sg/sh etc? If so than isnt any modern sn/sm suitable?


For automobiles, yes. For air cooled, hot running, less refined, and often no filter OP engines?

That's the "2 schools of thought" I mentioned above. One camp thinks the "SM/SN supercedes all previous grades" gives the go ahead for use in OP engines.

The other camp thinks that the lower additive levels in SN oils are not adequate for OPE engines. We have no data to back up either claim, other than "it works good in my engine" comments. Even Boraticus' 10w40 above is SL (more additives).

So a push mower on SJ lasts 20 years compared to maybe only 15 on SN (hypothetical). How would someone know that it was the oil?

Kawasaki recommends SJ oils and Kohler's branded oil is HDEO in both 30 and 10w30. Honda 10w30 OPE oil is SM. Toss a coin. It's all about doing what you want, regardless of other's beliefs. Just my 2 cents. Last time I looked, it seemed that many of the pros over at lawnsite were using oil other than automotive type SM, but they aren't oil experts either.
 
Personally, from my lengthy experience, any decent grade of oil within required viscosity range will do the job more than adequately.

Look at how many OPE engines that see virtually no maintenance and live fairly long lives. Give them an oil change annually, keep them topped up and they'll usually last longer than the machine they're mounted on.
 
On a commercial level for example with a splash lube system(0.6 qt) oil was changed out every 2-4 weeks at 25 hours by manual recommended. Oil used Delo400(HDEO) 30wt and Delo400 40wt in the later part of the engine's life. Just noting the Delo400 10w-30 was tested( with 800 hrs roughly) but after 15 hours of usage there was a noticeable difference versus with the Delo400 30wt. The Delo400 15w-40 can be used as a compromise and has been used on engines with thousands of hours of usage No cold starts here 65F-88F With extreme usage a HDEO oil is preferred over a PCMO.
 
"Look at how many OPE engines that see virtually no maintenance and live fairly long lives. Give them an oil change annually, keep them topped up and they'll usually last longer than the machine they're mounted on."

I agree ... but some use the same kind of justification to out-and-out neglect their machines going years (or never) between oil changes and marveling how long the engine lasts.

Lots of old OPE out there that was severely neglected and now smokes heavily, is hard to start, is down on power, etc ...

I know you stipulated annual oil changes and keeping the machine topped up, but I wanted to note the existence of some real basket cases out there because of lax maintenance.
 
Keep that 34Z OFF of any kind of slope. You will go straight to the bottom. The only way to mow any kind of slope with it is to point up up the slope then when you reach the top back it down. Move over and repeat. Other than that you just purchased the finest small ZTR money can buy. What I find rather strange is yours has the 15hp kawi. It must be an older model like ours. They have switched to the 17hp a few years ago. Ours is a first model year and now has over 1200+ hours on it. We bought ours new.

As far as oil goes. I use rotella 30wt in ours. These kawi engines have solid lifters and pressure lubrication. Air cooled engines run hot so change the oil according to the recommended intervals. You can use purolator or any oil filter you want (cross reference it). If you want the ultimate in protection (this is an oil forum right) I highly recommend Amsoil ACD diesel oil. It is VERY resistant to thermal breakdown, is both 10W-30 and straight 30wt, has a lot of cleaners and the zinc a solid can and tappets would ever need.


Oh and the 34Z rides pretty rough with to much air in the tires. Also dont buy factory blades they are very costly. Stens makes the blades for gravely and the stens brand is MUCH cheaper for the same exact blade.
 
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Thanks ProStreetCamaro. I've heard about the 34Z and the slopes. Fortunately, I don't have much and yes, I'll mow them up and down, rather than across. My 34Z is a 2004 model. I'm going to be trying out Amsoil ASE oil in it (very similar to the ACD). Thanks for the tip on the Stens blades.

Cheers,
Bryan
 
Hi, I owned a 12.5 HP Kawasaki engine on a Kubota rider I bought new in 1995. I ran it wide open and hard as it would go lots of times, and I finally gave it away last year. The only problem I ever had with it: after about 10 years, the bolts holding the base to the block got loose. I took it apart to reseal it, and could still see the home marks on the cylinder walls. it always started easily. I ran Pennzoil HD 30 weight, and changed it every year if I thought about it. my opinion: good engine, with any good oil, will be fine.
 
Originally Posted By: Bryan K. Walton
Originally Posted By: JTK
Awesome ZTR Bryan. You have to love anything Gravely. I hear these ride and handle real well. They offer lots of up/down deck float too which is really good on rough stuff.


Thanks JTK. I'm looking forward to mowing this year! Regarding the comments about the oil, I ordered two quarts of Amsoil ASE 10w-30/SAE 30. I've not been a big Amsoil user through the years (only tried it once in our '03 Ford Focus). But this particular stuff really seems to be a top notch oil without any VIIs. I've got a Fleetguard Filter to go with it.

Thanks,
Bryan


If you are going to use Amsoil, use the ACD. It does extremely well in air cooled gas engines. It is sold by the gallon, and I use it in every OPE 4 stroke I own. IMHO ACD is Amsoil's best oil.

Here is the link.
Amsoil ACD 10w-30/SAE 30

I can't remember if it is OK to post this link or not. So of not, Mods, please remove.
 
"my opinion: good engine, with any good oil, will be fine."

I couldn't agree more.

Waaaaaaaaaaay too much anxiety over oil brand/type/viscosity etc.

As you say, use any decent quality oil, keep it topped up and the engine will likely last as long as the machine it's on.

One thing I find unusual, is a Kubota with a Kawasaki engine? I thought Kubota built their own engines.
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus
"my opinion: good engine, with any good oil, will be fine."

I couldn't agree more.

Waaaaaaaaaaay too much anxiety over oil brand/type/viscosity etc.

As you say, use any decent quality oil, keep it topped up and the engine will likely last as long as the machine it's on.

One thing I find unusual, is a Kubota with a Kawasaki engine? I thought Kubota built their own engines.



For home usage you can tell how cheaply or what quality the frame is built. The OP has about 182 hours in 6-7 years. On a commercial level 500 hours yearly on higher quality equipment not home usage type the Delo400 30wt is preferred over the Delo400 10w-30. No PCMO oil due to heavier than normal dust conditions. A foam air filter is wrapped around a paper air filter.

Home usage versus commercial usage can not be compared.
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus
One thing I find unusual, is a Kubota with a Kawasaki engine? I thought Kubota built their own engines.


Perhaps I missed it somewhere else in this thread and you are referring to somebody else's mower. But the mower I mentioned in my OP, is a Gravely 34Z with a Kawasaki 15HP.

Cheers,
Bryan
 
Originally Posted By: Bryan K. Walton
Originally Posted By: boraticus
One thing I find unusual, is a Kubota with a Kawasaki engine? I thought Kubota built their own engines.


Perhaps I missed it somewhere else in this thread and you are referring to somebody else's mower. But the mower I mentioned in my OP, is a Gravely 34Z with a Kawasaki 15HP.

Cheers,
Bryan


buick8 mentioned that he has a Kawasaki engine in his Kubota.

I have a 15 h.p. FV 430 Kawasaki engine in my Husqvarna riding mower. It has around 400 hours on it. Great engine. No problem and no oil consumption. I run any good quality oil from 10W30 to 15W40 in it. Buy any good quality oil for the least amount of money. These Kawasaki engines don't need anything special.
 
Originally Posted By: boraticus
"my opinion: good engine, with any good oil, will be fine."

I couldn't agree more.

Waaaaaaaaaaay too much anxiety over oil brand/type/viscosity etc.

As you say, use any decent quality oil, keep it topped up and the engine will likely last as long as the machine it's on.

One thing I find unusual, is a Kubota with a Kawasaki engine? I thought Kubota built their own engines.



For a homeowner you are probably right. But for commercial use it is silly to not use the best oil and best oil filters money can buy. Take a homeowner model mower and use it daily for commercial work and most homeowner models will not make it through a single season. Commercial mowers and commercial grade engines are NOT cheap! They are an owners bread and butter and they must last as long as possible. These small air cooled engines run VERY hot. The more pricey liquid cooled engines tend to get almost double the life expectancy of the air cooled counterparts. BUT they also cost twice as much so there is no real benefit and it just makes repairs more costly due to having a radiators, fans, coolant lines and water pumps.

Sorry I was rambling on.
 
Originally Posted By: ProStreetCamaro
Originally Posted By: boraticus
"my opinion: good engine, with any good oil, will be fine."

I couldn't agree more.

Waaaaaaaaaaay too much anxiety over oil brand/type/viscosity etc.

As you say, use any decent quality oil, keep it topped up and the engine will likely last as long as the machine it's on.

One thing I find unusual, is a Kubota with a Kawasaki engine? I thought Kubota built their own engines.



For a homeowner you are probably right. But for commercial use it is silly to not use the best oil and best oil filters money can buy. Take a homeowner model mower and use it daily for commercial work and most homeowner models will not make it through a single season. Commercial mowers and commercial grade engines are NOT cheap! They are an owners bread and butter and they must last as long as possible. These small air cooled engines run VERY hot. The more pricey liquid cooled engines tend to get almost double the life expectancy of the air cooled counterparts. BUT they also cost twice as much so there is no real benefit and it just makes repairs more costly due to having a radiators, fans, coolant lines and water pumps.

Sorry I was rambling on.



Your not rambling, your right!
 
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