Grabbiest brake pads

[jonnythan]

I drive a '98 Grand Am (234k and still going strong) and I need to replace my brake pads soon. I've used Raybestos PG Plus Ceramics for the past 50k or so and been pretty happy with them. They're certainly superior to the Duralast Gold I used to use.

The thing is that the Grand Am's brake system is a bit underpowered and soft. Drives me crazy. You have to apply a lot of pedal force to stop the car. Therefore I'm always looking for pads with a higher coefficient of friction.

So I'm thinking about switching out to the Raybestos PG Plus Semi-metallic or Wagner ThermoQuiet Semi-metallic, thinking the metallic might give a little more friction. I don't care about dust at all.

Any thoughts or other suggestions are appreciated.

 

[Johnny248]

I wouldn't say that the Thermoquiets have any better grabbing power than your pads now. They really are not a performance pad. They are very good, but I don't think you are going to have better braking power. If you really want to, I'd look into something like EBC green or red. Those pads stop great. They do wear the rotors more than you standard off the shelf stuff. Some people are very high on the Hawk pads also. I really did not notice much difference with their street pads vs other pads though when I tried them. I've also been very happy with the stopping of the Napa Adaptive One pads which I personally have on two of my vehicles right now.

 

[Trav]

You can do an F body upgrade to these cars cheap using good used calipers and brackets with new rotors and pads.
Google for the parts you need.

 

[The_Eric]

I'm going to watch this thread, because I'm in a similar boat with the wife's 95 Grand Am.

Thermoquiets are on the front and rear (drums) now and to be honest, the braking is... Adequate.

If your brakes are really mushy, check the adjustment on the drums.

 

[Trav]

To late to edit.

I did a 12 inch upgrade on my GP that had 11 inch.
$30 for brackets and different rotors was all it took.
Braking is much better.

Rear same size as original.

Original fronts were same size as rear.these are the new 12 inch.1/4 inch clearance from caliper to wheel,no issue.

 

[jonnythan]

I am interested in using EBC pads, but can't make heads of tails of how their green, red, and yellow lines actually compare to one another. They're also pricey.

Trav, an upgrade looks very interesting. I'm concerned about pedal travel, and also I notice that your car looks like a 99+ which is significantly different from a 96-98. I'm only working with 14" wheels, and yours look like probably 15s.

 

[BigCahuna]

Even on an old car you can have the best pads made, and not have good stopping power. Things like old brake fluid and brake hoses that balloon, when pressure is applied can cause a loss in stopping power. Calipers that are gunked up and don't move freely can make the brakes feel lazy.,,

 

[jonnythan]

Thanks for the notes BigCahuna, but the hoses are all less than a few years old, the M/C is new, the calipers were new at the last pad change, and the brake fluid gets fully bled every few years. I'm doing everything I can to maintain or increase the stopping power here

 

[Trav]

Yes 2000 GP with 16" wheels.
Upgrading in your case may be a little different,maybe not a larger diameter rotor but dual piston F body calipers which will definitely provide a lot more grunt.
You would need caliper and brackets,used is okay then just new pads and original size rotors.

If your interested in doing a dual piston swap let me know and i will get the correct part numbers and directions for your app.

What engine is in your car? is it a GT?

The Bendix CT+3 pad has plenty of grab on these cars stock.

 

[jonnythan]

It's a '98 SE 2.4L.

 

[dparm]

Slotted rotors increase pad bite at the expense of pad life. Avoid drilled or dimpled.

Your options for grabby brakes may be limited since the car isn't using a performance braking system. Bleed your fluid well, it can help a lot.

 

[jonnythan]

I did find a stainless steel brake line set at TireRack for about $120 shipped. I'm thinking that's a worthwhile upgrade. Still not sure which pads to get. I'm considering the EBC Greenstuff. Can anyone confirm that this would provide more stopping power than, say, the PG Plus Ceramic or semi-metallic?

 

[doitmyself]

Try out size 10 brake pads.......

My apologies, I need some humor today.

 

[eljefino]

If you read the stuff printed on pads there's a friction coefficient... EE, FF, etc. 1st letter is cold, 2nd hot, further in the alphabet = better.

If you can get ratings for those EBC colors this might help sort them out.

 

[Carbuff]

FWIW I've found that keeping the rear drums adjusted will increase initial "bite". The pedal will not stiffen until the shoes are doing their share, even with good front pads.

It's often neccessary to adjust new rear shoes several times in the first few thousand miles, until they conform to the drum swept surface.

 

[440Magnum]

You've already gotten a ton of good advice... the one thing I would add is that "high tech" (metallic, ceramic, etc.) doesn't always mean better STOPPING power. Conventional pads sometimes (not always) perform better in terms of routine stopping despite shorter life and poorer anti-fade capability.

OF all the things I saw above, upgrading to a better braking system with junkyard parts and braided steel lines would be my first pick if I intended to keep the car any length of time. My limited experience with older FWD GM cars is that there's too much flex SOMEWHERE in their braking system (either calipers flexing or hoses stretching slightly) resulting in a much softer pedal than I really like. I never actually solved the problem as the only one I ever owned was sold in the early 90s and I just had them as rental cars after that and noticed the same thing up until the last 5-6 model years.

 

[jonnythan]

I've been doing some research and it doesn't look like there's any reasonable caliper/rotor upgrade you can perform on my particular car.

I will be getting the SS brake lines but the pads are still a question mark. I've emailed EBC and asked if they can provide the edge codes for the Greenstuff and Redstuff pads. I'll see if I can get the same for other manufacturers as well.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Trav]

The wheels small size on the SE is the problem.Better just go with better pads.

Originally Posted By: dparm
Slotted rotors increase pad bite at the expense of pad life. Avoid drilled or dimpled.



True but why avoid dimpled or drilled?Pad life? Pads are cheap its a trade off i don't mind at all.
20K on pads is good enough for me.
Anyway by that time the whole set up is looking pretty ratty with wheels that have a lot of exposure and look terrible with rusty parts.

 

[cp3]

I had cross-drilled on the G6 and I wasn't impressed at all. Any hard braking produced a grinding vibration similar to a bad wheel bearing and when I changed them the pads had groves 1/8" deep along the lines of holes. Seemed that all they did was reduce the effective surface area of the pad. When I replaced everything brakes felt and sounded better and did seem to work better too.

Maybe these weren't a good brand or something but it was enough for me to not use them again.

 

[Trav]

Guess i'm lucky.I used quite a few sets of these and run them for almost 2 yrs on one car without any problems in winter and summer.
They do stop good though with very little noise just a slight whoosh sound when braking in tunnels.