RedLine 10W-30, 2K Nissan Xterra V-6

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shortyb

shortyb

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Dec 15, 2002
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Simpsonville SC
Ok, first UOA on this vehicle. Here is some background:
96,346 miles at time of sample. Oil in service for 6,115 miles. No oil additives, no make-up oil. Comsumed 3/4 quart. OEM Nissan filter, K&N drop-in air filter. Stock, no mods. Regular maintenance servicing. Oil changes are done around 5K. Maintenance dosages of RedLine SI-1. 1 treatment of BG44K during interval, never used before. Amoco 93 religiously from the same station, save comments, I have already been enlightened. Mostly urban driving with several long highway trips.

Here goes with the results. I apologize for the format, I don't have a scanner handy. Blackstone did the analysis and Terry Dyson the interpretation. First number is my sample, second is univ. avgs.

Aluminum-11/8
Chromium-1/2
Iron-14/15
Copper-8/8
Lead-55/32
Tin-1/1
Moly-569/318
Nickel-0/0
Manganese-3/1
Silver-0/0
Titanium-0/0
Potassium-18/9
Boron-17/42
Silicon-18/17
Sodium-19/15
Calcium-2592/2374
Magnesium-8/151
Phosphorus-1200/983
Zinc-1310/1096
Barium-1/1

Visc.-71.8/59-69
Flash-475/>360
Fuel- Antifreeze-0.0/0
Water-0.0/ Insolubles-0.5/
TBN-0 Yes I said zero. I'm freaking about this one but Terry is having Blackstone do a retest.

Incidently, for anyone out there interested in professional, helpful, and insightful interpretation, consider using Terry Dyson's sevices. The paltry sum that I paid pales in comparison to the value of Terry's feedback. He is currently reviewing my "gray areas" and is lending his wealth of knowledge to solving some of these mysteries. I highly recommend this option.

Feel free to comment, I will try to answer any questions that pop up.
 
Re: TBN - Could be clean up. Could be fuel additives.

Pb is high. Do you drive like Bros. Schumacher?

Trends is the important thing as we have learned.

I think the Mo went acidic. I don't think it helped much for wear. But I'm just a hack selling Amsoil, so what do I know?
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quote:
Originally posted by shortyb:
Yes, seems bad, but besides the TBN issue what specifics can you lend? Just a novice UOAer here. Thanks.
Click to expand...
My biggest concern is the lead number, it's much higher than it should be for only 6k. It could point to a mechanical problem.
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Since I cannot trend it, I will say that the high number might have come from the combo of fuel adds. The only other thing that would worry me is the small loss of coolant over a 30K period, about 3 ounces worth. Other than that, I'm totally stumped. Its my wife's car, and no, she doesn't drive anywhere near what the Bros. Schumacher do. Except maybe when they crash
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Sorry honey.
 
shortyb, if the TBN is really that depleted after one moderate use, it's because the engine had some serious cleanliness "issues" before the Red Line was even poured in. The first use with Red Line in a high-mileage vehicle often shows evidence of cleaning ... but holy cr@p!
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Can 5,000 mile intervals and dealership bulk oil really make such a mess?
dunno.gif


Looks like a short interval with a dino oil and Auto-RX might be in order before you start getting decent UOAs out of this or any other oil.

Either that or Red Line is the absolute worst oil ever ... and I just can't believe that.
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--- Bror Jace
 
I second the AutoRx treatment.

So spill the beans, what did Terry say? I agree, he comes very highly recommended, but I don't think he minds if a customer yaps about their own analysis.
 
quote:
Either that or Red Line is the absolute worst oil ever ... and I just can't believe that.
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I don't believe that Redline is bad, but I'm starting to doubt it's proclaimed superiority. This case could be just a mechanical problem so I can't say.

I think we focus on specs. to much at times. Analogy: A mid 90's Camaro with great 0-60 times, torque, high end speed, cornering and the whole 9yds. Fine. But the QUALITY of the components are lousy therefore reliablity issues arise etc. Did anyone ever think that while great specs on paper doesn't always mean great real world results? Food for thought.
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I think we already know that it takes at least two changes with Redline to start getting decent numbers. This engine is a high millage engine to put an oil known for it cleaning ability into and then UOA it. I am betting that if he used Redline two more times and did UOA we would see an improvment trend. Their is definatly something else going on in this engine. All of his wear metals were high for the oil used and driveing conditions. His AW additives show some depletion and the oil has thickened. His insolubles and fuel dilution were also high! The flash point is 475 yet he still lost or burnt 3/4 of a quart! Something mechanical is not right. I am also woundering how long the oil was in and the type of driveing (short trips/long drives).....

[ July 16, 2003, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]
 
John I think you make some very good points. It is only the second sample and there could be something wrong with this engine. I don't think it's the oil.
dunno.gif
 
Yes, I can't believe that Redline is the worst ever either, I have had great performance in other vehicles. Just to clarify, Redline has been used in this car since 5K with changes every 5K. This is NOT the first use, that would definately explain some of the #s. The only thing I did differently this interval was to add the BG44K treatment. Did that have some kind of reaction with the SI-1 and cause the Pb to rise because of some weird detergent action? Don't know, will have to see what the 2nd UOA shows. Now the coolant issue stems from a flush at 60K. Nissan service used an OEM flush compound that had a strong petroleum/chemical smell to it that lasted for several thousand miles. Could this have caused the lead sloughing? Again, who knows. One thing about this is if there was a small leak and coolant did find its way to the crankcase, I can only surmise that the RL did a great job of saving my engine from serious damage, ie: moly, basestock, etc. TBN depletion would be the downside to this obviously but I will wait for the retest before I start losing sleep. Goes without saying that a coolant pressure test is in order. I don't know if the oil side really needs the Auto Rx, seems "clean" . Now I may have some fuel side problems from using the 93 octane for so long, getting some extra deposits from the extra additives. Did this "extra" detergent action could cause the elevated Pb? Maybe. Needless to say, 87 octane and some Fuel Power may do the trick. Thanks for the comments and theories, keep em coming.
 
John Browning-
Driving was 50 miles one way to work for the first 60K, mostly highway. Now mostly urban but over 30 minutes trips, so the oil does get up to sustained temps for awhile. Fuel dilution is actually 0 but when charted the lowest measure symbol was >0.5. Insolubles were on the high end of the range. I agree that something mechanical may be amiss. It has "consumed" the same 3/4 since birth. Typical Nissan sloppy ring sealing? could be. That would definately be my bet since alot of crap has seemed to find its way into the oil, probably from the fuel side. Leakdown test time.
 
Redline in my Outback got dirty very quickly after previous use of Delvac 1 w/Auto-Rx so I second the cleaning theory. Still a 2nd RX app after RL oil was particularly bad looking (understatement). IMO engines get dirty a lot quicker than any of us believe.
 
Most water pumps weep a small amount of coolant so your coolant loss could be from the pump seals. The analysis doesn't indicate any coolant contamination. What are Redline S1-1 and BG44K?

This oil also thickened out of grade.

[ July 17, 2003, 07:04 PM: Message edited by: Jay ]
 
Wait a minute, Shorty, are you saying that you've used Redline every 5k since 5K??? That makes this the 18th or 19th run of Redline and you still have numbers like this?

Somethings up with that hardware, Man.

[ July 19, 2003, 08:02 AM: Message edited by: joee12 ]
 
Past mediocre Reline UOA's have been excused by the "cleaning affect" of a recent switch to Redline. Here is an example where its been used for the entire vehicle's life and the results still aren't impressive. I was considering using Redline in my engine, but this thread worries me.

Jon
 
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