Valvoline Durablend 5w30, 4068 miles, 4.6l V8 Ford F150

MNgopher · Jun 30, 2003

Latest results from Blackstone. Auto-Rx was used for the last 800 miles of the interval with a fresh Purolator Pure One filter installed with the Rx. Total Make up oil was 1/2 qt after the Rx was added. Weather ranged from -20 F to upper 70's during interval. Truck is not garaged and does not have a block heater. Air filter is a Fram - still not changed as it looks fine.

code:

Miles on Oil 4064 4096 Universal Avgs

Miles on Unit 160358 156294

Sample Date 6/10/03 2/8/03

Aluminum 4 4 5

Chromium 1 1 1

Iron 20 17 22

Copper 3 3 11

Lead 0 0 2

Tin 2 1 1

Moly 2 3 30

Nickel 1 2 1

Manganese 0 0 1

Silver 0 0 0

Titanium 0 0 0

Potassium 1 2 0

Boron 0 5 44

Silicon 13 10 13

Sodium 8 3 7

Calcium 2045 1834 1773

Magnesium 8 13 441

Phosphorous 767 724 787

Zinc 890 799 969

Barium 1 0 1

Viscosity@100C 9.5 8.7

(converted)

Flashpoint (F) 415 375

Fuel
Antifreeze 0 0

Water 0 0

Insolubles 0.5 0.6

TBN: 2.5 2.5 (old method)

My thoughts:
TBN came in at 2.5, would be about 4.5 under old test. Much better than the last result. Still depleted considering the TBN starts at 8.3 under the new test. (See my post under Virgin samples).

Wear was quite consistent and acceptable given the use the truck sees. Viscosity also held up better than last time, although it is still shearing.

Elevated sodium is from living in the salt belt during winter.

Oil was replaced with Conoco Hydroclear 5w20!

At this point, what have I got to lose!

[ July 01, 2003, 02:32 AM: Message edited by: MNgopher ]

Al · Jun 30, 2003

I'm not real familiar with how the AutoRX affects the analysis-I'll leave that to the proes. But seems fine though.

Why are you going to a 20 wt.

G-MAN · Jun 30, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Al:
I'm not real familiar with how the AutoRX affects the analysis-I'll leave that to the proes. But seems fine though.

I'd be willing to bet this is a case where Auto-RX is propping up a mediocre oil and enabling it to post half-way decent numbers. I think he will be much better served with Conoco Hydroclear.

MNgopher · Jun 30, 2003

As I see it, the numbers with the exception of the TBN and the Viscosity are essentially unchanged (at least within tolerances anyways). Tough to say Rx made the oil better if you ask me (unless you like to bash based on brand only). Maybe future results will show benefits, but so far,

.

One note - the PCV valve was changed early in this interval - I was seeing too much condensation buildup on the fill cap in the last interval. Condensation levels immediatly dropped. Accounts for much of the TBN drop in last interval, by my reckoning.

Temps in this interval were every bit as bad as the previous interval - Lots of nights below zero and days below freezing.

Why a 20 weight oil? Why not? Ford has back recommended these engines use 5w20, UOA's have looked good, and besides, y'all are starving for numbers on the 5w20!

Schmoe · Jul 1, 2003

hmmmm.....guess it's true. Vavoline just doesn't like to use moly.

Jay · Jul 2, 2003

I'm a fan of 20-weight oils, but in this older engine 30-weight may be a better choice, especially during summer.

Mystic · Jul 2, 2003

Somewhere in the past I noticed some Valvoline advertising where they said that the higher quality the oil, the less chemical additives were needed. Maybe they were trying to justify the low additive content of their motor oils.

This oil that was studied is Valvoline Durablend, which is a part synthetic (maybe 10% synthetic). It should be superior to the Valvoline conventional motor oils. In fact, one guy said that Durablend should be better than Valvoline synthetic, since Valvoline synthetic is apparently Group III.

Bror Jace · Jul 2, 2003

Keep in mind, Mystic, Durablend might be a blend of Group II & Group III. In fact, if I had to wager some money, that's what I'd bet on.

So that "higher quality base oil" argument doesn't wash.

--- Bror Jace

MNgopher · Jul 2, 2003

If you look at the MSDS, the Base Oils used in the All Climate and Durablend are different. As far as I can tell, there is 0 PAO in this product - a blend of Group III and some Group I or II is more likely.

Also, the additive pack between the Durablend and the All Climate is different (I've tested both) - more robust in the Durablend.

On another note, in a previous post, based on CAS numbers in the MSDS, someone suggested this was a Group III (mostly) with a bit of Group I added. I pointed out that if this were true (the particualr CAS number being group I), then we have shown an oil can meet the most current oil specs using only a Group I base oil (Valv All Climate). Everyone has said that can't be done. No further comment was made...

Mystic · Jul 2, 2003

MNgopher, if I am reading you right, then Valvoline All Climate meeting the current requirements (even if Valvoline All Climate is not the greatest of oils) is actually a considerable achievement?

Well, in that case, imagine what Valvoline All Climate could be with a quality base like what Chevron has!

MNgopher · Jul 2, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Jay:
I'm a fan of 20-weight oils, but in this older engine 30-weight may be a better choice, especially during summer.

Jay, I used to be inclined to agree with you, but I'll present the following ideas:

1. Wear is fine using a 5w30 that shears into 5w20 land. Why wouldn't a 5w20 that should be more shear stable produce similar results.

2. Oil consumption on this engine is nill using the 5w30 that shears to a 5w20. Makeup oil added in this case was to deal with the filter change for the AutoRX treatment, not to deal with consumption issues. We'll see how it is on a 5w20.

3. I'm at the least going to try the 5w20 before passing judgement. If it protects as well, gives me slightly better fuel mileage, and seems to have some added benefits on the cold start side (strictly based on oil viscosities), then how have I lost?

We'll see in about 3-4 months how we did (unless I sell the truck first!)

MNgopher · Jul 2, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Mystic:
MNgopher, if I am reading you right, then Valvoline All Climate meeting the current requirements (even if Valvoline All Climate is not the greatest of oils) is actually a considerable achievement?

Well, in that case, imagine what Valvoline All Climate could be with a quality base like what Chevron has!

Mystic, I was surprised that after those points were raised in the other thread, it died and no further discussion was made. Everyone here seems to be of the opinion that an oil must be Group II or up to meet the latest and greatest... For a while it was theorized that Mobil Drive Clean was group I, but that talk has died off. Who knows?

timzak · Jul 3, 2003

FYI, I ran 5w20 Motorcraft in my 95 Hyundai Accent for 1000 miles recently and found that oil consumption went WAY up (~1 qt/1200 mi). I just switched back to 10w40 Pennzoil last week and so far consumption appears to be reduced by half (1/8th qt lost in 300 miles). The owner's manual recommends 10w30 or 10w40, but allows as thin as 5w30 in cold weather and as high as 20w50 in hot weather. It appears the 5w20 is too thin, at least for this car.

HOndaGuy · Jul 3, 2003

only use 5w20 if your vehicle calls for it, otherwise, use whatever 0, 5, or 10w30 you have been using.

MNgopher · Jul 5, 2003

I'd be inclined to agree - I wouldn't use a 5w20 in a car that didn't recommend it. In my case, it is an approved oil for the engine (and now recommended) by a Ford TSB.

Jay · Jul 5, 2003

Good for you then, MNgopher. gopher it! I'd like to see the back-to-back comparison.

tweeker43 · Jul 5, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by MNgopher:
If you look at the MSDS, the Base Oils used in the All Climate and Durablend are different. As far as I can tell, there is 0 PAO in this product - a blend of Group III and some Group I or II is more likely.

Also, the additive pack between the Durablend and the All Climate is different (I've tested both) - more robust in the Durablend.

On another note, in a previous post, based on CAS numbers in the MSDS, someone suggested this was a Group III (mostly) with a bit of Group I added. I pointed out that if this were true (the particualr CAS number being group I), then we have shown an oil can meet the most current oil specs using only a Group I base oil (Valv All Climate). Everyone has said that can't be done. No further comment was made...

here are bits of the msds for valvoline durablend and synpower.

durablend:

Ingredient(s) CAS Number % (by weight)
-------------------------------------------- ------------- -------------
HEAVY PARAFFINIC PETROLEUM DISTILLATES 64742-54-7 54.0- 64.0
SOLVENT-DEWAXED HEAVY PARAFFINIC PETROLEUM D 64742-65-0 10.0- 20.0
ZINC COMPOUNDS 68649-42-3 1.0- 1.0

synpower:

Ingredient(s) CAS Number % (by weight)
-------------------------------------------- ------------- -------------
PETROLEUM HYDROCARBON 64742-54-7 52.0- 62.0
ZINC COMPOUNDS 0.7- 1.4

note that the base oils are same cas number and roughly the same percents.

MNgopher · Aug 20, 2003

Sorry guys - there will be no follow up on the Motorcraft Conoco 5w20 in this truck.

I sold it this evening to a very nice 17 year old gentleman. I sure will miss this truck!

Short report: After 2,000 miles, fuel mileage showed no statistical change from earlier tendencies. No consumption of oil to date, which many would expect with the "thin" 5w20. Engine runs smooth and strong as ever.

I was kind of looking forward to seeing how the 5w20 fared in a high mileage engine where conventional wisdom would say a thicker oil would do better.

Whimsey · Aug 20, 2003

Oh well MN, thanks for trying. I guess you'll just have to use the Conoco/Motorcraft 5W-20 in your remaining Ford truck and report to us on that one

.

Whimsey

MNgopher · Aug 21, 2003

Never fear, my experiments in 5w20 will definitely continue in the '99! For now, I'm going to keep running the Havoline 5w20 in it for three changes or so to get a trend on it, then perhaps try another brand. All in the name of science of course!

Valvoline Durablend 5w30, 4068 miles, 4.6l V8 Ford F150

Similar threads