Honda Transmission Fluids

[Rancha9]

OK, so I've been digging around for awhile now, and am still confused about a few things, especially since Honda's aren't my thing...

Wife has a '98 Civic that has been a yard ornament for a few years while we waited for the title for it (long story). Anyway, we have it and now need to go through and change pretty much every fluid out so we can drive it again...

The manual states "Use Honda Premium Formula ATF". Was this fluid superceded by Z-1? Either way, I really don't want to even walk into a Honda dealership, let alone give them money in any way, so what can I put in this thing? Any special concerns for a vehicle that's been sitting for a long time? (I did occasionally sneak it out and drive it on the road, but not very often)

 

[sciphi]

Watch for rusty brake rotors, flat/dry-rotted tires, and dried-out vacuum hoses.

For ATF, I'd use Valvoline Maxlife ATF. It's working well in our 2009 Fit.

 

[4D-56]

Go the Amsoil website, click on the product look up guides...this will tell you all of the required fluids for your Honda.

 

[fsdork]

Z1 has since been replaced by DW1, which is listed as backwards compatible by Honda. Given the questionable durability of Honda automatics of that era, I wouldn't want to add another possible reason for mine to fail. I'm running DW1 in my 92 Accord with no issues. YMMV.

 

[unDummy]

You can use any full synthetic or blend universal or multi-vehicle ATF that mentions Honda. If you shop on budget, Maxlife is an easy choice. Its a coin toss among it and ATFs from Amsoil, Amalie, Redline, and RoyalPurple.

 

[onion]

I debated for quite a long time over whether or not to run Honda ATF in my wife's '04 Accord. Here are some relevant facts that I don't think are in dispute:


Honda automatic transmissions have a spotty (at best) reputation for reliability.

Honda automatic transmissions are fundamentally different in their design from the vast majority of other brands of automatic transmissions (most use planetaries whereas a honda uses a design similar to a manual transmission with clutch packs instead of synchronizer hubs)

Oil analysis shows that the additive package (particularly the friction modifiers) used in Honda ATF is significantly different from that used in most common ATF's.

DW-1, Honda's latest ATF, is marketed as an improvement over Z1, is backwards compatible, and available for about $8 per quart.


Based on those facts (and somebody please correct me if those are not 'facts'), I've decided that I'm going to stick with Dw-1 at least for now. It isn't much more expensive than alternatives of questionable compatibility, and DW-1 guarantees that Honda's (apparently) odd friction requirements will be met.

I could go with MaxLife at around $6 per quart and save a total of maybe $60 over the next 100k miles. Or I could pay an extra $60 or so and go with Amsoil or the like. But neither is what these rather odd Honda transmissions were designed for. And for a transmission that costs easily $3000 to rebuild, that isn't much of a price incentive.

I've read that DW-1 is synthetic. And I've read that is isn't. I really don't know, and it doesn't really say on the bottle. I would THINK that it would say on the bottle if it were a 'true' group IV or V synthetic. It's advertized as improving cold-weather performance over Z1, which implies (though doesn't necessarily mean) a better base stock. So my guess- and it's only a guess- is that DW-1 more of a semi-synthetic or a blend, kinda like DexVI and MerconV... but with Honda-specific friction modifiers.

 

[Jim Allen]

Well summed up, Onion.

This is what makes Honda ATF choice an agony if you are particular. There are plenty of anecdotal reports that other oils can be used but those reports are on lubricants that are nearly as expensive as the DW-1 (or the old Z1) or vastly more expensive. When you compare a Z-1 VOA with any other ATF, you can see the differences in formulation. Don't know if there is a DW-1 VOA up yet to look at.

I had pretty much decided to stray away from Z-1 the next full change (in about 15K now) but DW-1 coming in makes yet another revisitation of that decision necessary. Talk about BITOG-itis!

 

[RegDunlop]

In a Honda use HONDA ATF.... very important. It may cost more and it may suck that you have to go to Hona to get it, but it's CHEAP when compared to a new transmission.

 

[unDummy]

Its not important. But, when the garbage Honda transmission fails, you can't blame the fluid. That is the ONLY reason to use the Honda ATF. If you're the self-absorbed type to point and blame, please definitely use DW1 or Z1.

There is nothing special about Honda's chosen gear layout.

 

[sky7]

DW1 is $80 shipped for a case of 12 or 6.67/qt from HandA accessories. I just grabbed one for when I rebuild my odyssey trans. I believed the improved cold weather performance of DW1 comes from it low 6.8 cst (iirc) from the idemitsu msds.

There is still a lot to learn about dw1. I too sweat the Honda fluid decision.

 

[gogozy]

the ATF-DW1 is full synthetic. i was at dealership this morning and i saw this. the bottle on the ATF-DW1 have full synthetic on it. i will post the pic later when i have time.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: onion
I debated for quite a long time over whether or not to run Honda ATF in my wife's '04 Accord. Here are some relevant facts that I don't think are in dispute:


Honda automatic transmissions have a spotty (at best) reputation for reliability.



I agree with pretty much everything you've said, except the point above. I'd say "many Honda automatics have a spotty reputation for reliability".

Not all of their AT's have that reputation, however. The one with which I'm the most familiar, the CRV transmission, has a pretty much flawless reputation. I don't know of the differences, and which model goes in which, as I'm not really a Honda guy either, but there's zero evidence that this transmission is anything but solid. I think that fact also throws water on the belief that Honda AT's are all failing because of the horrible fluid... Sure, Z-1 shears down like crazy, but lots of CRV owners have put a lot of miles on it.

The OP's transmission seems to fall into this category as well. There don't seem to be many reports of problems on '98 and prior Civic AT's.

As far as the hassle of going into the dealer, if you don't want to, just buy it online. That said, when I've called local dealers and asked them to match an online price, I've always found one willing to do it after a couple of phone calls.

In the end, I'd go with DW-1.

 

[onion]

Yes, if you want to get into specific transmissions, then I tend to agree with you here. I think the 5-speed automatic in the CR-V is essentially the same transmission as the 5-speed automatic in my 4-cylinder Accord- and those are reputed to be pretty solid.

As for 'spotty' reliability, I was referring to Honda transmissions in general. They've had enough failure-prone models over the years so that even people who own their more reliable transmissions can't help but be paranoid.

I'll have to try and see if the local honda dealer will price-match. I doubt they will, as their prices are among the highest I've seen anywhere. But I can order DW-1 online for around $8 per quart including shipping, so I consider that acceptable. Not great, but acceptable. You can get a pretty low price from some of the on-line dealers, but by the time you add in shipping, it's around $8 per quart- and then only if you buy a full case. But I've found people who sell it on ebay 4 quarts at a time for the same price including shipping. Might be stolen... hard to say. I suppose that would bother SOME people.

 

[thrace]

Quote:
In a Honda use HONDA ATF.... very important. It may cost more and it may suck that you have to go to Hona to get it, but it's CHEAP when compared to a new transmission.
Used only Z1. Honda trans still failed. None of the Z1 ATF or replacement transmission were cheap compared to anything.

 

[onion]

Originally Posted By: thrace
Quote:
In a Honda use HONDA ATF.... very important. It may cost more and it may suck that you have to go to Hona to get it, but it's CHEAP when compared to a new transmission.
Used only Z1. Honda trans still failed. None of the Z1 ATF or replacement transmission were cheap compared to anything.


What year/model/engine?

 

[MK2]

I use Pennzoil Multi Vehicle ATF and Castro HM to my Civic for about two years now. It shifts fine.

 

[Boss302fan]

I agree that a few of the Honda trannys are problematic. Especially the older MDX/Pilots...

ZR1 is one of the reasons(it just does not stand up) along with poor tranny design.

Bottom line is that Honda, hopefully stepped up and created a better tranny fluid(DW1)that will help with tranny longevity and not having to change it very 15K miles. That in its self is unexceptable. Should be able to go at least 50K without any fluid breakdown issues...

 

[ahoier]

Originally Posted By: stro_cruiser
Go the Amsoil website, click on the product look up guides...this will tell you all of the required fluids for your Honda.
yep, very good reference.

At 8$/qt for the "Honda" fluid, personally, I'd spend the extra couple dollars and go with Redline/Amsoil/Royal Purple ATF....if either of those 3 carry an ATF meeting the specs for your vehicle.



On a side note; a friend of mine has a 94 Honda Accord LX....tranny went out on it. So they got a replacement from the scrap yard from a "newer model" Accord, but same exact tranny, only lower miles. They went to Advance to get the ATF, and the counter guy sold them DEXIII multi vehicle ATF.....with no "Honda" anywhere on the bottle.......

He said the car shifts fine though....

 

[Mr Nice]

I like to drain/refill with Honda ATF cause the shifts remain buttery smoooooooth.

 

[CharBaby]

Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
I agree that a few of the Honda trannys are problematic. Especially the older MDX/Pilots...

ZR1 is one of the reasons(it just does not stand up) along with poor tranny design.

Bottom line is that Honda, hopefully stepped up and created a better tranny fluid(DW1)that will help with tranny longevity and not having to change it very 15K miles. That in its self is unexceptable. Should be able to go at least 50K without any fluid breakdown issues...


I too am hoping that Honda has not only stepped up with a better ATF but with better auto trannys.
I remember when I couldn't kill a Honda auto tranny running it on anything DEXRON.