2001 Toyota Echo, Amsoil 5W-30, 8018 miles

[highmiler]

Analysis by Oil Analyzers Inc.

2001 Toyota Echo 1.5 liter engine
Oil: Amsoil ASL 5w-30
Air filter: Purolator
Oil filters: 1 Ac Delco, 1 Amsoil BE 90, using Amsoil dual filter, bypass setup

Results in PPM, only those greater than 0 listed:

Iron: 3
Lead: 1
Copper: 5
Aluminum: 3
Silicon: 16 - will change filter today -
Boron: 1
Magnesium: 349
Calcium: 2923
Phosphorus: 1106
Zinc: 1318
Molybdenum: 1
fuel: less than 1%
Vis @ 100 C : 11.19 cSt
Water: 0
glycol: neg

TBN: 7.36
oxidation: 10
Nitration: 19

I would appreciate any and all comments.

 

[MolaKule]

Very good showing. The original viscosity is about 11.3, so it held "in-grade" very well.

We use this oil in my MIL's Oldsmobile 3.1 L V6. She lives in the cold damp recesses of Iowa and has had good luck with this oil.

Did you have to replace any oil, and what are your driving conditions?

 

[highmiler]

There was no oil replaced at all. By looking at the oil dipstick I would say consumption was minimal, possibly about 5 ounces.

My typical driving is commuting to work 40 miles away, 70% highway usually around 70 Mph, 30% city stop and go.

No trips of less than 10 miles as I live in a small rural community and locally I either walk or use a bicycle.

[ March 01, 2003, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: highmiler ]

 

[mdv]

Those wear rates look great (except silicon)!
How many miles total on the car?
Was the oil changed or was this just a sample?

 

[highmiler]

Total miles on the car when oil was tested: 54005

Oil was changed at that point. I will try to go a little longer between changes but change the air filter more often.

 

[Toy4x4]

Great to find an Echo analysis since my sister has one. I can show her this and hopefully explain it correctly to show what I've been studying on this board (so I can stop hearing "You're still researching oil!!!????"---justify myself interest other words

)

 

[ryansride2017]

While this report looks excellent and the oil is holding up really well, the wear metals should look this good with the bypass set-up that was used. When a bypass filter is used, IMO, your really not comparing apples with apples. This forum is most beneficial when different types of oil are run through "stock material" (or very similar to it) and we can compare how each type of motor oil performs.

It would be interesting to see how conventinal Havoline would look with this type of set-up.

Sometimes I think I am being anal with using synthetic oils until I see people using bypass filters. There is no doubt bypass filters are better, but is it alot of overkill?

[ March 02, 2003, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: ryansride2017 ]

 

[Bio-T]

To me this analysis shows that this oil could have been extended indefinetly with the present setup and analysis at each 10K. A filter change and go on. Also this was with 5W30 instead of the 10W30 that is so highly recommended. A bypass filter works and this analysis shows that and this oil can take this vehicle for the long haul.

The real incentive is that highmiler now owns the bypass filter and when he changes vehicles he can install it on his new vehicle and still achieve this type of results. It is not an immediate payback, but over time and extended drains he can recoup the cost and have clean oil even at high milage.

I think that the analysis would have been just as good with dino oil. I have one in the diesel analysis with and without synthetic, same vehicle and the dino was actually better. I did run that after an Auto-Rx clean and a maint. dose however, so not 100% apples to apples. But if my analysis are good, bypass and dino why not.

I'll take a $150 dollar bypass on my engine any day over some of these $150 aftermarket air filters, or $300 clear lenses or $2000 stero upgrades. Sorry my priorities are so screwed up.

 

[ryansride2017]

59 Vetteman,

I agree the oil in this vehicle seems like it could be used indefinitely. It just seems like this analysis is less useful when comparing different oils since a bypass filter was used.

Here's an idea that would be useful to everyone: HIGHMILER, disconnect the bypass filter, use the exact same oil and interval and have the oil analyed again. It would be interesting to compare the two results. But I guess there is not much motivation to do this if you find a oil/filter combination that keeps wear metals that low.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by 59 Vetteman:



I'll take a $150 dollar bypass on my engine any day over some of these $150 aftermarket air filters, or $300 clear lenses or $2000 stero upgrades.

---

I spent $1000 on upgrading my sound system last year, simply because it only came with a 4 speaker cassette, and I drive for close to 2 hours per day so I wanted something better to listen to!

Everyone knows my views on bypass filters, I know they work, but I also believe for most people they are overkill. When you see some of the reports on here where an oil goes 9000 miles like Stuart H's run on BobZoil and has virtually zero wear, you wonder how much better could it possibly get? As it is, his engine will probably have the potential to go 300k, that's plenty good enough!

For me, there will come a point in time where I'll be trading my LT1 Firebird for another LS1 Firebird again. So I have no need to make this LT1 last 400k. I'm probably 5 years away from a trade though, so I do want this engine to be trouble free. Once I get that LS1, if I can get that car to 200k I'd be happy, after that I'd be rebuilding the engine for more power anyways.

 

[Bio-T]

highmiler,

You are correct on the price of the dual bypass system. I was really referring to the single bypass such as Motor Guard, Frantz or the single Amsoil. I just personally like the single units better.

Patman,
For every StuartH oil analysis there are 10 not so good ones, or less that I desire in an analysis. I am tone deaf, so $1000 on a stereo is a waste of $999 to me. You can trade cars every year and just move the bypass to the next one. I don't worry about differential press of the FF or the kind of media or end caps ect with a bypass. Plus I still get my 1 quart extra oil and use good ole cheap Super Tech filters.

[ March 02, 2003, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]

 

[highmiler]

Ryansride2017:

I know that we are comparing apples to oranges when we compare factory oil filters to dual filter – bypass systems like the one from Amsoil. It is just so much better at catching many of the wear metals. I don’t know what the results would be with other dual filtering systems. I sure would like to know.
As to overkill, you are probably right. With my type of driving the engine is likely going to last 300k anyway. For a while my wife and I considered buying another Toyota Echo and NOT install the dual filter system so that we could compare the two. But then my wife doesn’t like the Echo that much, she thinks that from a utilitarian point of view it can be justified to buy one –the one I drive to work- but she would rather drive a vehicle more appealing to her.

59 Vetteman:

You are an optimist. The dual filter system is more like $ 200 plus installation and that can be up to five hours. I did it myself and it took me the greater part of a day. Otherwise it would be around 200 to 400 more!

I will not disconnect the system in the future just to see the oil analysis results without the dual filters. What I will do is try different oils. Right now I am using the last few quarts of Pennzoil Synthetic 5W-30 in my garage to see what the wear numbers will be with a group III oil. After that I will use Havoline Synthetic 5w-30 –bought 19 quarts on sale a little over a week ago for $ 2 per quart at my local Wallyworld. Couldn’t resist at that price considering this is a real group IV oil.

I will let you know the results of the different analyses in the future. There will be one test done every 3 months or so.

What I really would like to know, has anyone installed a Pre-oiler or pre-luber and the bypass filter system? It would be very interesting to know the oil analyses results with such a setup in place.

 

[Fillherup]

Highmiler,

I would suggest that you look at the OEM Toyota filter gasket. On my Camry, the Purolator seal is very hard and just part of the filter. I don't see how it would conform to my air box as well the softer Toyota seal. I think the Toyota media may be better than the Purolator, also. You might try both and please report the results.

FYI, look at my post on SAE air filter results. Changing the air filer may not be the solution.

 

[TooSlick]

highmiler,

Silicone in new toyota engines is leaching from the oil pan gasket material - it is not dirt. Since chrome wear is not posted, I assume it was 0 ppm? If you have lots of dirt, the first place to look is at piston ring and cylinder wear - chrome and iron levels. No problem in this case ....

Results look fine, you could have just changed filters in this case, topped off the crankcase and ran another 8000 miles. Very little oil degradation here and you can run down to a TBN of 4.0 with the new OAI test protocol for TBN.

TooSlick

 

[Dick in Falls Church]

>>> know that we are comparing apples to oranges when we compare factory oil filters to dual filter – bypass systems like the one from Amsoil. It is just so much better at catching many of the wear metals.
-------------------------------------------------

The bypass filters don't catch the wear metals--they catch the particles that cause the wear metals to show up.

I've seen many times that most wear is caused by particles between 5 and 30 microns in size. That makes sense, since most filters (air and oil) will remove most particles 20-30 microns and larger.

 

[highmiler]

TooSlick:

You are right. Chrome was not posted because it was 0 ppm.

I could have changed filters and topped off the crankcase. I wasn’t sure how long OAI would take for the analysis. It took three weeks, almost 2k miles with my kind of driving.

It was my first analysis with this car and I didn’t want to possibly exceed the lifespan of the oil. Now I know better!

I’m presently using some leftover Pennzoil Synthetic –Group III- 5W-30 and later I will try Havoline Synthetic 5W-30 (got it cheap at WalMart).

The next analysis results will be posted in about 7 to 8 weeks.

Many thanks to everybody for the comments.

 

[Patman]

Even when the wear metals are zero, it's a good idea to post them too, not only because seeing the number zero in there makes you want to dance

but also because it gives us an idea of what metals that lab tests for. They might not test certain metals, so we'd assume you meant zero when in fact that wear metal wasn't included in the test.

 

[highmiler]

If anyone is interested, the complete analysis can be found here:

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/cc4293

Just click on the folder named "oil analysis" and you can see the scanned report in JPG format.

Hope this works!

If not, email me and I'll send you the report.

Note: They listed the engine as 4.5 liter. It should say 1.5 liter.

[ March 03, 2003, 09:43 PM: Message edited by: highmiler ]

 

[highmiler]

Apparently the quality of the image that can bee seen in the previous link leaves much to be desired. I apologize. If anyone is interested I'll gladly email the file (better quality).

 

[highmiler]

Patman:

You are right, as usual.

I will post the complete analysis once I'm back home.