ZDDP Debate

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Mind you that the GC 0-30 mets ACEA A3 specs so it has to have at least a HTHS of 3.5 to get that rating.


I thought that the HTHS requirement for 30-weight oil was 2.9 minimum, but I'm used to looking at SAE specs. I'm not familiar with ACEA specs.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
Well I know the HTHS has to be at lease 3.5 since it meets certain Euro specs. It has its own page dedicated here on BITOG its so popular. haha. I have emailed M1 about using their HM oil in my low mileage car, they have not responded yet. I am just concerned about the extra additves that are in the HM to clean the engine from sludge of high miles with dino oil, and the seal additives. I am not sure that makes a difference or not. I just don't want to add the HM and find out it has adverse affects??

From my understanding as well, the M1 HM is PAO not Group 3 is it safe to say that? Or do we really not know? So far the M1 HM really seems tough to beat for my application. Again, the Redline is awesome, but ordering it would be a hassle, the $10 per qt and shady looking VOA's and UOA's kinda make me think twice on that stuff.

Thoughts?


The higher detergency of HM won't hurt anything. If there is no sludge to clean, there is no sludge to clean. Mobil does recommend that the first change with HM be a short one, but since you're only going 3k miles, it's probably short enough.

We really don't know the proportions of base stock groups in any of these oils. I'm basing my conclusions of Syntec based on things that were true 15 years ago, and not necessarily so today. They probably all have some content from different base stock groups. The proportions of which, they ain't tellin', so informed decisions aren't possible. Just educated guesswork.

Basically, I've talked myself into M1 HM for future oil changes, in preference to basic M1.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

I think the M1 HM 10/30 sounds pretty good to me. It has 1000ppm of ZDDP, has a 3.6 HTHS rating, and can be had at WallyMart for $24 for 5 qts. I don't think that is being cheap, I think that is being smart. I may be putting that in my Evo next oil change. See how it likes 26psi of boost thrown at it! haha.

Dave at Redline recommended I use their 5/30 for my application. Its just man, not sure. I know make a big deal out of nothing, but if the UOA's looked better, it would make me feel better, that is for sure.

 

[A_Harman]

I'm sure the Redline would work, it's just that it doesn't seem to fit into your requirements for availability and cost-effectiveness.

 

[Boss302fan]

Redline is a great oil but for much less money, I think Mobil 1 HM oils are just about as good for your application.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I'm sure the Redline would work, it's just that it doesn't seem to fit into your requirements for availability and cost-effectiveness.


Very True. I bent my own rules to try out Redline. The car likes it, so it is worth the extra effort of ordering. Cost is more due to shipping for sure. Not all stores have M1 HM in 5 qt jugs. So if you pay by the qt the Redline is about $1.50 more per qt. To me that is a wash when comparing the two. Redline to me is just on a completely different playing feild than M1. Am I wrong in saying that? All over $1.50 plus shipping?

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Redline is a great oil but for much less money, I think Mobil 1 HM oils are just about as good for your application.


I decided to shy away from M1 because they would not give me a straight answer if M1 is a group 3 or group 4 oil. If im paying $7-8.00 per qt of oil, I want to know. Their hokey answers made me feel they were hiding something. Sure group 3's are pretty decent but thats not what I want.

With Redline I know what I am buying. A POE and PAO Based Oil with a [censored] of an additive package. For a car making over 160whp per liter, it behooves me to purchase this oil. Even at the added expense.

Besides, I am helping out a California based company. Living here in CA and seeing all the business's pack up and leave CA makes me feel good in buying from a local oil company.

So far the car likes the oil. Starts smoother, idles smoother, and my MPG's are up 1-2mpg on average to boot.


Jeff

 

[si1491]

Hmm, I wonder how much, if any, of your MPG increase can be attributed to the MT-85?

I had considered this oil, the RL 5-30 that is, for my EVO IX as well but haven't decided yet (stock+tune, AMSOIL SSO 0-30). My other consideration was the RL 5-20 (HTHS of 3.3, 0.1 higher than the SSO).

Thanks for the VAO