Does Dexron VI last 100k?

Originally Posted By: PDX2500HD
All makes sense Onion, However... Allison does recommend TranSynd in ALL their boxes, including the one's sold for GM (actually made off sight at a GM facility).. There is a bit of tension on this I know because I've contacted Allison about it and they say "we have to tell you up front, that GM recommends Dex VI, but we disagree and recommend TranSynd" ... I then dug deeper into GM's engineering and got them to admit that for "severe duty" they recommend TranSynd over Dex VI.. As a matter of fact, when it's really cold it's specifically listed as being recommended in this marketing brochure generation with GM and Allison (read toward the last page)..

I'm sure both are "Fine" but I'd be willing to bet that at least for severe duty or long drain intervals (i.e. going 100,000 miles in a car), the TranSynd is better, it's made for severe duty from the get go.


http://www.allisontransmission.com/servl...et=SA5521EN.pdf



That's an interesting bit of information on the brochure:


Quote:
Allison recommends using TranSynd™
uid in those areas where transmission fl
the minimum ambient temperatures are
below -40 degrees F


I doubt that either of us will be operating in -40 degree weather... but it's still interesting.

As for the GM engineers that you mentioned:

Quote:
I then dug deeper into GM's engineering and got them to admit that for "severe duty" they recommend TranSynd over Dex VI.


Is this anything in writing, or better yet something that you can provide a link for? Or was this an over-the-phone conversation?
 
Originally Posted By: onion
PDX2500HD said:
Is this anything in writing, or better yet something that you can provide a link for? Or was this an over-the-phone conversation?



I timed my post with yours.. pls see above..
Click to expand...
 
First,

To qualify an additive system for DEXRON(R) approval a 150,000 mile test is required.

Second,

There are only about 8 original approvals. The rest are reblends or rebrands of those originals.

Finally,

TranSynd did not even meet the DEXRON(R)-III H requirements.
 
Whitewolf! I was hoping you'd show up.

I realize you're limited in just how much info you can release... but as you can see, this discussion is sorely lacking in hard info. I remember that some time back, you had some data showing that DexVI was significantly 'better' than Transynd in several tests. Care to refresh my memory on that? Do you have a link or something?

And could you clarify the issue with DexVI and nitrile seals? I know that there's an Allison service bulletin out on the issue- I've seen it. As I recall, it says not to use DexVI in Allison transmissions made before a certain date and/or serial number. Anything you can tell us about that issue?
 
Originally Posted By: onion

And could you clarify the issue with DexVI and nitrile seals? I know that there's an Allison service bulletin out on the issue- I've seen it. As I recall, it says not to use DexVI in Allison transmissions made before a certain date and/or serial number. Anything you can tell us about that issue?


I can tell you that Allisons' from a certain age on back (about 2007) CAN'T use Dex VI due to the type of seals they have reacting with it.... but that's got nothing to do with Allison's recommendations for use of TranSynd, and specific de-authorization of Dex III and VI for commercial use (i.e. severe duty).
 
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There is a one-size-fits-all answer to the OPs question.
"Maybe".

The longer answer is based upon a MUCH more clearly defined complete description of the vehicle use, maintenance, etc. AND THEN A UOA OR TWO.

I personally have used generic Dex/Merc (AAP brand) ATF in my wife's Villager minivan, did a UOA after 30k miles, and I clearly could have gone much further. The wear metals were very low, the insolubles will nil, the TBN/TAN were fine, the vis was spot on, etc. I feel confident I could have pushed out to 50k miles easily, and that's on house brand stuff.

My point is that there is no pure answer except at the extremes of use.

ATF drain/fills at 30k miles are overkill in most applications, but they assure you of good performance, if even they are wasteful.

OCIs out to 100k miles are risky, even if OEM recommended, without UOA confirmation along the way.

Anything else in the middle gets a solid "Maybe".
 
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looks like this thread wend dead now that I've liked Allison's TS-1099... so are we to assume the debate as to which fluid is better for heavy duty applications is settled?

By the way, just to double check, and triple check myself.. I called Allison directly and talked to them about the GM Allison 1000 in the trucks and if its' different enough to justify any differences in fluids... the answer was a flat out no.. the only difference between the Allison made one and the GM made one is some minor programing changes and mostly labyrinth stuff.. He said if it were his truck and he had to own it past 100,000 miles, he'd use TES-295 fluids only. He also said that the research Allison did on Dex III and VI in studying their customer fleets lead them to this new TS revoking the ability to use Dextron fluids in commercial use products.

So hopefully we can put the false information that seems rampant in this section about TranSynd..
 
Let's not put this to rest just yet until we squeeze Whitewolf (our local DexVI guru/fanboy, depending on who you ask) for a little more info.

I have both Dex VI and transynd on the shelf in my garage. I'm looking for more info- not trying to back up a strongly held opinion.
 
Fair enough.... call Allison for yourself... Granted, they sell this stuff, but they're also the most reputable maker of transmissions and might know a thing or two about the topic.

I think Wolf and I went around on this one once.. I can't recall what he had to say other than repeat what the GM manuals all say... Dex VI in everything from the Volt to the 3500HD..
 
Call Allison? How 'bout I call GM? They're both in the business of selling me something.

I want data.
 
Originally Posted By: onion
Call Allison? How 'bout I call GM? They're both in the business of selling me something.

I want data.


Problem is when you call GM you get a philipene call center, with Allison you get an American tech that works for Allison who knows more than most of us ever will.
 
Originally Posted By: PDX2500HD
Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Mike Lovrich of Inglewood Transmission, a name I will remember as an ill informed [censored]!

Sad, but he doesn't have a clue. Dex VI is light years different from Dex III. Not even in the same galaxy.
Exactly!! Using Mike as a reference was basically a waste of time based off his statement!


I love how guys going by anonymous names with absolutely no apparent credentials run down a well known expert in something on the internet.

So you know more about transmissions than Mike L? Where's your shop?
I don't need a shop to know about Dex-VI and it's properties or how good of a fluid it is with certain trannies. Asking me if I have a shop is the same thing as saying I don't know how to change my oil and transmission fluid in my car because I don't own a Jiffy lube or mechanic shop. Starting off by saying "he wouldn't flush his toilet with Dex-VI" without any solid facts doesn't work with me.
 
Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45

I don't need a shop to know about Dex-VI and it's properties or how good of a fluid it is with certain trannies. Asking me if I have a shop is the same thing as saying I don't know how to change my oil and transmission fluid in my car because I don't own a Jiffy lube or mechanic shop. Starting off by saying "he wouldn't flush his toilet with Dex-VI" without any solid facts doesn't work with me.


Well then Google Mike Lovrich and email him... I'm sure he can give you the facts should you want details. For me, it's simple.. I'm not an expert on everything, so when I want to know about something, I look to the experts. If he thinks it's bad, then that's good enough for me.. If Allison themselves then yank Dextron off their approved list of fluids, that might give me a reason to be suspicious alone, but then to have BOTH of them say it... we'll that's what I call Check Mate.

Did you read my link above? Why would Allison yank Dextron off ALL their models if it was so great?
 
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
There is a one-size-fits-all answer to the OPs question.
"Maybe".

The longer answer is based upon a MUCH more clearly defined complete description of the vehicle use, maintenance, etc. AND THEN A UOA OR TWO.

I personally have used generic Dex/Merc (AAP brand) ATF in my wife's Villager minivan, did a UOA after 30k miles, and I clearly could have gone much further. The wear metals were very low, the insolubles will nil, the TBN/TAN were fine, the vis was spot on, etc. I feel confident I could have pushed out to 50k miles easily, and that's on house brand stuff.

My point is that there is no pure answer except at the extremes of use.

ATF drain/fills at 30k miles are overkill in most applications, but they assure you of good performance, if even they are wasteful.

OCIs out to 100k miles are risky, even if OEM recommended, without UOA confirmation along the way.

Anything else in the middle gets a solid "Maybe".


btw... I vote for this as being the best answer to the OP... it's pure sense.
 
Originally Posted By: PDX2500HD
Originally Posted By: NightRiderQ45

I don't need a shop to know about Dex-VI and it's properties or how good of a fluid it is with certain trannies. Asking me if I have a shop is the same thing as saying I don't know how to change my oil and transmission fluid in my car because I don't own a Jiffy lube or mechanic shop. Starting off by saying "he wouldn't flush his toilet with Dex-VI" without any solid facts doesn't work with me.


Well then Google Mike Lovrich and email him... I'm sure he can give you the facts should you want details. For me, it's simple.. I'm not an expert on everything, so when I want to know about something, I look to the experts. If he thinks it's bad, then that's good enough for me.. If Allison themselves then yank Dextron off their approved list of fluids, that might give me a reason to be suspicious alone, but then to have BOTH of them say it... we'll that's what I call Check Mate.

Did you read my link above? Why would Allison yank Dextron off ALL their models if it was so great?


No I see where you jumped the gun. If you read my first statement, I was just stating that Dex-VI in general is a great fluid in certain applications. Re-read my original posts. I'm not debating if Dex-VI is great in allison trannies due to the fact I don't own one. I was debating the original post where it was stated that "he wouldn't flush his toilet with Dex-VI" with no facts to back up that post.
 
I changed mine at 18K. I saw enough break in material that I would have changed it sooner but was not able too. Fluid is too cheap in my opinion not to change at 30k interval. The big problem I see with longer is filtration.
 
Originally Posted By: millerbl00
I changed mine at 18K. I saw enough break in material that I would have changed it sooner but was not able too. Fluid is too cheap in my opinion not to change at 30k interval. The big problem I see with longer is filtration.



Agreed. I've no doubt that DexVI and lots of other ATF's could "last" 100k miles. But considering that lots of automatics have only a rather porous suction filter... how much crud is floating around in that otherwise acceptable ATF?

Obviously a magnefine or the like would help address this. Better yet a bypass filter. But changing the ATF is a relatively cheap and simple option for dumping wear particles... and guarantees that the ATF is still in good condition.
 
onion, I just looked up a recent debate I apparently had with whitewolf over a statement he made about Transynd having failed Dex III spec.. I already once silenced him on this topic... there is nothing more to say. Allison and GM both allow the use of TranSynd/TES295, GM in the case of extreme temps which I'm sure was reluctantly put into the owners manual, Allison in ALL cases.. it's the superior fluid to Dextron III/VI, ESPECIALLY if you're going extended interval.

As per Allison's above referenced ST-1099, every Allison commercial transmission from the 1000 to the 5000, on RV's, Waste Management garbage trucks, Medium and Heavy Duty diesel trucks, etc.. today use it (OR a TES-295).

And incase it comes up again... there are NO appreciable mechanical differences between the 1000 in the GM trucks and the 1000 sold directly by Allison... there are minor shift programing differences ONLY.


Found that thread with him .. here..

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...564#Post2147564
 
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