http://www.nascar.com/news/110121/fuel-injection-delay-thunder/index.html
They'll probably start out with GM TBI from a 1990 Chevy 350.
They'll probably start out with GM TBI from a 1990 Chevy 350.
3 decades late....
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so we're stuck still using carbs for 2011...that puts us 1 year away from fuel injected V-8's.
If we learn from history, Ford cars used the ever-wonderful VV carb the year before going to fuel injection. Yeah, that's the ticket, make the Ford cars use VV carbs on the NASCAR circuit.
If we learn from history, Ford cars used the ever-wonderful VV carb the year before going to fuel injection. Yeah, that's the ticket, make the Ford cars use VV carbs on the NASCAR circuit.
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
http://www.nascar.com/news/110121/fuel-injection-delay-thunder/index.html
They'll probably start out with GM TBI from a 1990 Chevy 350.
the pictures I've seen actually DO show a throttle body where the carb used to be, but they are using individual injectors on a fuel rail.
I love it how people like to make fun of NASCAR and their assumed 'outdated' technology; what other motorsport is running basic single cam, single carb, distributor ignition V8's making around 800hp and running 200mph all day long?
(actually, they were running 200mph 40 years ago also)
NASCAR had a reason for not running injection all these years; it was for SAFETY. they were concerned about the high fuel pressure and the possibility of a fuel pump continuing to run in a crash.
http://www.nascar.com/news/110121/fuel-injection-delay-thunder/index.html
They'll probably start out with GM TBI from a 1990 Chevy 350.
the pictures I've seen actually DO show a throttle body where the carb used to be, but they are using individual injectors on a fuel rail.
I love it how people like to make fun of NASCAR and their assumed 'outdated' technology; what other motorsport is running basic single cam, single carb, distributor ignition V8's making around 800hp and running 200mph all day long?
(actually, they were running 200mph 40 years ago also)
NASCAR had a reason for not running injection all these years; it was for SAFETY. they were concerned about the high fuel pressure and the possibility of a fuel pump continuing to run in a crash.
Originally Posted By: mpvue
I love it how people like to make fun of NASCAR and their assumed 'outdated' technology; what other motorsport is running basic single cam, single carb, distributor ignition V8's making around 800hp and running 200mph all day long?
(actually, they were running 200mph 40 years ago also)
How about Can-Am, LeMans, the races they ran on Monza's banked oval, at Germany's AVUS, the list goes on and on. This territory was conquered by others a long, long time before these guys got around to it. In fact, it was before most of 'em were even born...
NASCAR is still outdated.
I love it how people like to make fun of NASCAR and their assumed 'outdated' technology; what other motorsport is running basic single cam, single carb, distributor ignition V8's making around 800hp and running 200mph all day long?
(actually, they were running 200mph 40 years ago also)
How about Can-Am, LeMans, the races they ran on Monza's banked oval, at Germany's AVUS, the list goes on and on. This territory was conquered by others a long, long time before these guys got around to it. In fact, it was before most of 'em were even born...
NASCAR is still outdated.
Maybe Nascar could adapt the Rochester FI setup off of the 57 Corvette. That way they could say that their Car of Tomorrow is within a half century of the cutting edge of technology. I realize that Nascar has to keep their technology within the comfort zone of their fans hence limiting the pace of development to a slow crawl.
Originally Posted By: mpvue
the pictures I've seen actually DO show a throttle body where the carb used to be, but they are using individual injectors on a fuel rail.
I was hoping that the Frances, Helton, et al would let them have carbon fiber ITB intakes, a la the ALMS GT1 C5/6Rs, and Vipers.
I guess they deemed that either too expensive, or too high tech, or both.
the pictures I've seen actually DO show a throttle body where the carb used to be, but they are using individual injectors on a fuel rail.
I was hoping that the Frances, Helton, et al would let them have carbon fiber ITB intakes, a la the ALMS GT1 C5/6Rs, and Vipers.
I guess they deemed that either too expensive, or too high tech, or both.
Originally Posted By: mpvue
NASCAR had a reason for not running injection all these years; it was for SAFETY. they were concerned about the high fuel pressure and the possibility of a fuel pump continuing to run in a crash.
Yeah, just look at all those problems every other racing series on the face of the Earth has had with that over the last few decades...
I think it may be time to lay off the Bill France Sr. Limited Edition Budweiser flavored Kool-Aid.
NASCAR had a reason for not running injection all these years; it was for SAFETY. they were concerned about the high fuel pressure and the possibility of a fuel pump continuing to run in a crash.
Yeah, just look at all those problems every other racing series on the face of the Earth has had with that over the last few decades...
I think it may be time to lay off the Bill France Sr. Limited Edition Budweiser flavored Kool-Aid.
NASCAR had the old cam driven fuel pump on the side of the block ?
I thought that they had electrics, and surge tanks and stuff, man was I wrong.
IMO, this will make the cars more affordable, as tuning for a carb, especially restrictor plated is crazy.
Oz V-8 supercars get 600+hp, from 300(ish) C.I. within 7500 RPM, cam in block, pushrods etc. 9" rear end, locked rear centre...and a distributor on some...clock 300km/hr (fixed diff ratio, and 7,500 RPPM see that it doesn't go higher).
Pity that COTF is going to wreck the concept.
I thought that they had electrics, and surge tanks and stuff, man was I wrong.
IMO, this will make the cars more affordable, as tuning for a carb, especially restrictor plated is crazy.
Oz V-8 supercars get 600+hp, from 300(ish) C.I. within 7500 RPM, cam in block, pushrods etc. 9" rear end, locked rear centre...and a distributor on some...clock 300km/hr (fixed diff ratio, and 7,500 RPPM see that it doesn't go higher).
Pity that COTF is going to wreck the concept.
Originally Posted By: rshunter
Originally Posted By: mpvue
I love it how people like to make fun of NASCAR and their assumed 'outdated' technology; what other motorsport is running basic single cam, single carb, distributor ignition V8's making around 800hp and running 200mph all day long?
(actually, they were running 200mph 40 years ago also)
How about Can-Am, LeMans, the races they ran on Monza's banked oval, at Germany's AVUS, the list goes on and on. This territory was conquered by others a long, long time before these guys got around to it. In fact, it was before most of 'em were even born...
NASCAR is still outdated.
NASCAR has been around since '49, what long, long time are you talking about?
I don't see what's wrong w/ a racing series that uses carb'd V8's; it's fun, people relate to it, and it's uniquely American.
BTW, I don't follow NASCAR, and don't have a favorite driver.
Originally Posted By: mpvue
I love it how people like to make fun of NASCAR and their assumed 'outdated' technology; what other motorsport is running basic single cam, single carb, distributor ignition V8's making around 800hp and running 200mph all day long?
(actually, they were running 200mph 40 years ago also)
How about Can-Am, LeMans, the races they ran on Monza's banked oval, at Germany's AVUS, the list goes on and on. This territory was conquered by others a long, long time before these guys got around to it. In fact, it was before most of 'em were even born...
NASCAR is still outdated.
NASCAR has been around since '49, what long, long time are you talking about?
I don't see what's wrong w/ a racing series that uses carb'd V8's; it's fun, people relate to it, and it's uniquely American.
BTW, I don't follow NASCAR, and don't have a favorite driver.
NASCAR is all about providing exciting racing through close competition. Technological advancements in automotive engineering are not part of their formula. They have been studying EFI for a few years, and will only mandate it if they are sure they can police it to keep competition close.
Originally Posted By: mpvue
NASCAR has been around since '49, what long, long time are you talking about? I don't see what's wrong w/ a racing series that uses carb'd V8's; it's fun, people relate to it, and it's uniquely American.
While NASCAR has been around since 1949, they haven't been turning in the kind of numbers you were citing since then. Those kind of numbers were, however, being produced be a number of other series as far back as the '30s.
There is nothing wrong with a series being simple in its specification. Blowing smoke up people's backsides that it's something beyond that is. They attempt to draw a link between what people are driving and what NASCAR is racing. That link isn't even "hanging by a thread", it's absolutely untenable. A road vehicle shares nothing with its' NASCAR impersonator.
NASCAR has been around since '49, what long, long time are you talking about? I don't see what's wrong w/ a racing series that uses carb'd V8's; it's fun, people relate to it, and it's uniquely American.
While NASCAR has been around since 1949, they haven't been turning in the kind of numbers you were citing since then. Those kind of numbers were, however, being produced be a number of other series as far back as the '30s.
There is nothing wrong with a series being simple in its specification. Blowing smoke up people's backsides that it's something beyond that is. They attempt to draw a link between what people are driving and what NASCAR is racing. That link isn't even "hanging by a thread", it's absolutely untenable. A road vehicle shares nothing with its' NASCAR impersonator.
Originally Posted By: rshunter
They attempt to draw a link between what people are driving and what NASCAR is racing. That link isn't even "hanging by a thread", it's absolutely untenable. A road vehicle shares nothing with its' NASCAR impersonator.
I would think most people realize this, since they have been using so-called 'silhouette' cars since the 80's. calling a chevy-engined race car an 'impala' is just to advertise the impala. the term 'stock' car has evolved past its original connotation and I don't see anything wrong with that. no one is claiming (nor do I think anyone believes) that the taurus sold at the Ford dealer is the same car raced on sunday.
They attempt to draw a link between what people are driving and what NASCAR is racing. That link isn't even "hanging by a thread", it's absolutely untenable. A road vehicle shares nothing with its' NASCAR impersonator.
I would think most people realize this, since they have been using so-called 'silhouette' cars since the 80's. calling a chevy-engined race car an 'impala' is just to advertise the impala. the term 'stock' car has evolved past its original connotation and I don't see anything wrong with that. no one is claiming (nor do I think anyone believes) that the taurus sold at the Ford dealer is the same car raced on sunday.
Originally Posted By: mpvue
I would think most people realize this, since they have been using so-called 'silhouette' cars since the 80's. calling a chevy-engined race car an 'impala' is just to advertise the impala. the term 'stock' car has evolved past its original connotation and I don't see anything wrong with that. no one is claiming (nor do I think anyone believes) that the taurus sold at the Ford dealer is the same car raced on sunday.
You'd be surprised how many people I've heard say something to the effect of, "I don't follow other kinds of racing because they don't race real cars like they do in NASCAR!". I kid you not.
The old line about never underestimating the stupidity of the American consumer has never been better reinforced than it is by a large segment of the NASCAR crowd. Take a look at the marketing surveys taken among NASCAR fans. They prove my point...
P.S.: Even my spell-checker considers "NASCAR" to be illegitimate!
I would think most people realize this, since they have been using so-called 'silhouette' cars since the 80's. calling a chevy-engined race car an 'impala' is just to advertise the impala. the term 'stock' car has evolved past its original connotation and I don't see anything wrong with that. no one is claiming (nor do I think anyone believes) that the taurus sold at the Ford dealer is the same car raced on sunday.
You'd be surprised how many people I've heard say something to the effect of, "I don't follow other kinds of racing because they don't race real cars like they do in NASCAR!". I kid you not.
The old line about never underestimating the stupidity of the American consumer has never been better reinforced than it is by a large segment of the NASCAR crowd. Take a look at the marketing surveys taken among NASCAR fans. They prove my point...
P.S.: Even my spell-checker considers "NASCAR" to be illegitimate!
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Oz V-8 supercars get 600+hp, from 300(ish) C.I. within 7500 RPM, cam in block, pushrods etc. 9" rear end, locked rear centre...and a distributor on some...clock 300km/hr (fixed diff ratio, and 7,500 RPPM see that it doesn't go higher).
Shannow; I don't remember if I ever asked this before (getting too old
), but, are the Falcons now, or were they ever, allowed to use the 32 valve 'Romeo' based powerplants?? (Or are/were they always required to stick with Windsor based OHV deals?)
Oz V-8 supercars get 600+hp, from 300(ish) C.I. within 7500 RPM, cam in block, pushrods etc. 9" rear end, locked rear centre...and a distributor on some...clock 300km/hr (fixed diff ratio, and 7,500 RPPM see that it doesn't go higher).
Shannow; I don't remember if I ever asked this before (getting too old
dailydriver, they are still using SBCs and Windsors.
The 7500RPM mandatory redline has them using really short decked versions to get the C of G down at the front (that being said, they are revving them to 8-9000 on downchanges for additional braking effort).
Ford actually lost Oz the only home grown V-8. CAMS (Confederation of Australian Motorsport) had group A, which was awesome, with E30BMWs chasing Brock around the mountain. They wanted to adopt European 2.5 litre regs. Ford whined that the Windsor couldn't keep up with them, and got the NASCAR block. Holden argued that they (being Oz) didn't have a NASCAR block, and got the Chev. CAMS dropped the 2.5 litre idea.
Holden dropped the Oz designed and built V-8...Larry Perkins thrashed all the chev/Ford teams in the Oz V-8 swansong, just to prove a very impressive point, and they all whinged at how unfair he was.
Car of teh future will have standard chassis,standard suspension, Ford 9", Standard gearbox and ratios, and whoever's engine and panels bolt on. Not sure whether Hyundai, Toyota, Mazda and Nissan will be running Windsors or SBCs.
The 7500RPM mandatory redline has them using really short decked versions to get the C of G down at the front (that being said, they are revving them to 8-9000 on downchanges for additional braking effort).
Ford actually lost Oz the only home grown V-8. CAMS (Confederation of Australian Motorsport) had group A, which was awesome, with E30BMWs chasing Brock around the mountain. They wanted to adopt European 2.5 litre regs. Ford whined that the Windsor couldn't keep up with them, and got the NASCAR block. Holden argued that they (being Oz) didn't have a NASCAR block, and got the Chev. CAMS dropped the 2.5 litre idea.
Holden dropped the Oz designed and built V-8...Larry Perkins thrashed all the chev/Ford teams in the Oz V-8 swansong, just to prove a very impressive point, and they all whinged at how unfair he was.
Car of teh future will have standard chassis,standard suspension, Ford 9", Standard gearbox and ratios, and whoever's engine and panels bolt on. Not sure whether Hyundai, Toyota, Mazda and Nissan will be running Windsors or SBCs.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
dailydriver, they are still using SBCs and Windsors.
The 7500RPM mandatory redline has them using really short decked versions to get the C of G down at the front (that being said, they are revving them to 8-9000 on downchanges for additional braking effort).
Ford actually lost Oz the only home grown V-8. CAMS (Confederation of Australian Motorsport) had group A, which was awesome, with E30BMWs chasing Brock around the mountain. They wanted to adopt European 2.5 litre regs. Ford whined that the Windsor couldn't keep up with them, and got the NASCAR block. Holden argued that they (being Oz) didn't have a NASCAR block, and got the Chev. CAMS dropped the 2.5 litre idea.
Holden dropped the Oz designed and built V-8...Larry Perkins thrashed all the chev/Ford teams in the Oz V-8 swansong, just to prove a very impressive point, and they all whinged at how unfair he was.
Car of teh future will have standard chassis,standard suspension, Ford 9", Standard gearbox and ratios, and whoever's engine and panels bolt on. Not sure whether Hyundai, Toyota, Mazda and Nissan will be running Windsors or SBCs.
Wow, no more sequentials, and still a locker??
If they adopted Euro 2.5 L regs what would they have done, restricted the OHV V-8s??
Or did the multiplication factor work out even vs. the multi-valve, multi-cammed Euro engines?
dailydriver, they are still using SBCs and Windsors.
The 7500RPM mandatory redline has them using really short decked versions to get the C of G down at the front (that being said, they are revving them to 8-9000 on downchanges for additional braking effort).
Ford actually lost Oz the only home grown V-8. CAMS (Confederation of Australian Motorsport) had group A, which was awesome, with E30BMWs chasing Brock around the mountain. They wanted to adopt European 2.5 litre regs. Ford whined that the Windsor couldn't keep up with them, and got the NASCAR block. Holden argued that they (being Oz) didn't have a NASCAR block, and got the Chev. CAMS dropped the 2.5 litre idea.
Holden dropped the Oz designed and built V-8...Larry Perkins thrashed all the chev/Ford teams in the Oz V-8 swansong, just to prove a very impressive point, and they all whinged at how unfair he was.
Car of teh future will have standard chassis,standard suspension, Ford 9", Standard gearbox and ratios, and whoever's engine and panels bolt on. Not sure whether Hyundai, Toyota, Mazda and Nissan will be running Windsors or SBCs.
Wow, no more sequentials, and still a locker??
If they adopted Euro 2.5 L regs what would they have done, restricted the OHV V-8s??
Or did the multiplication factor work out even vs. the multi-valve, multi-cammed Euro engines?
I did not know EFI was needed for driving around in circles.
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