Maxlife 10w40 for Diesel Application
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Originally Posted By: 3311
Originally Posted By: Texan4Life
This is an interesting idea.
I wonder why there is not a "high mileage" HDEO on the market?
I agree you think there would be. Over the rod trucks are true high mileage vehicles. They have Maxlife Diesel in Europe.
Don
I googled maxlife diesel 10w-40 and found it has a API CF rating like M1 HM sold here.... I wonder if the formula is any different than the US maxlife 10w-40 and they just didn't bother with getting a API diesel rating?
Originally Posted By: Texan4Life
This is an interesting idea.
I wonder why there is not a "high mileage" HDEO on the market?
I agree you think there would be. Over the rod trucks are true high mileage vehicles. They have Maxlife Diesel in Europe.
Don
I googled maxlife diesel 10w-40 and found it has a API CF rating like M1 HM sold here.... I wonder if the formula is any different than the US maxlife 10w-40 and they just didn't bother with getting a API diesel rating?
dnewton3
Staff member
I'll bet it's not the same stuff.
If it were, they would be money ahead to market is as such, and at the very minimum have the API certs on the bottles so that people would be more likley to purchase it for blended, mutlti-vehicle ops. It just makes sense, if the products are the same, to get the most exposure and sales from the least efforts; that is the definition of efficiency, after all (output / input).
How about I send them an inquiry and see what they say? Why have conjecture when we can ask directly?
If it were, they would be money ahead to market is as such, and at the very minimum have the API certs on the bottles so that people would be more likley to purchase it for blended, mutlti-vehicle ops. It just makes sense, if the products are the same, to get the most exposure and sales from the least efforts; that is the definition of efficiency, after all (output / input).
How about I send them an inquiry and see what they say? Why have conjecture when we can ask directly?
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dnewton3
Staff member
I asked Valvoline and actually got a fairly decent, quick response.
I limited my question (obviously) to the similarities/differences of MaxLife 10-40, which is the initial topic of this thread, and Valvoline Premium Blue (their HDEO).
Here is their response:
"Thank you for your questions and we would be happy to help. To begin with, we can 100% assure you that the two products are NOT the same formulation and meet many different testing specifications. For beginners, the MaxLife products are not recommended for use in diesel applications, as the API standards only specify use for gasoline engines, with the API SN/SM listed on the back of the labels. The Premium Blue products (both 5w40 and 15w40) are licensed as API CJ-4 and are specified for use in heavy duty diesel applications that require stringent standards on ash content, unique dispersive polymer technology to control soot in diesel applications, allow higher levels of antiwear chemistry and other major components that attribute to diesel engines. Maxlife on the other hand contains levels of additive to help control seal leakage from older seals and friction and wear in higher mileage vehicles.
The Calcium and Magnesium detergent levels in the Premium Blue products is vastly different than the Maxlife additive signature that contains Calcium and Sodium detergents and the Zinc/Phosphorus level is also different which is a reflection of the different specifications the products must meet and also the application they function in.
The two products can also be separated by numerous specifications such as Viscosity Index, which is mostly attributed to the particular basestock of each one. In the Premium Blue line, we manufacturer both a conventional 15w40, as well as a synthetic 5w40, so comparison to the MaxLife product which is a synthetic blend, would range slightly according to which product was in question."
Not that I expected different, but it's clear the MaxLife product line is not suited for use in today's diesels, for a variety of reasons.
Now, is the European ML 10w-40 Diesel the same as our North American ML 10w-40? I don't know. I don't think it matters either. Why? Because even the Euro Diesel oil is only rated for "CF"; that's WAY back, folks. Most of today's decent synthetic PCMOs will carry a CF or CF-4 rating; because it's not that stringent!
The OP's quest was to use some HM ML oil to perhaps replenish the viability of a seal in his 7.8L Durmax (a commercial inline-6). That engine was developed along with the 6.6L Dmax, chronologically as I recall. So, I believe that all of them will require CH-4 or greater. To go backward to a CF rated lube is not a good choice.
Because the OP only was looking at 5 quarts out of 24 quarts, I don't know that it will really hurt anything. But I expect it won't help at all either. That is a bit more than 20% of the sump capacity. If it's not enough to hurt, then it's not enough to really make any differnce in helping the seals, either. I see it as a wash. But it is nearly a 20% loss of qualified HDEO additives.
Ultimately, he chose M1 HM 10w-40 to put in his Shell Rotella 15w-40. I don't think we're going to be very successful in getting an answer by asking Mobil how well they think their non-current-rated HDEO will compliment a competitor's current CJ-4 HDEO. And I don't think SOPUS is going to be very impressed with dumping out their CJ-4 product in favor of a competitor's CF rated PCMO, either ...
I limited my question (obviously) to the similarities/differences of MaxLife 10-40, which is the initial topic of this thread, and Valvoline Premium Blue (their HDEO).
Here is their response:
"Thank you for your questions and we would be happy to help. To begin with, we can 100% assure you that the two products are NOT the same formulation and meet many different testing specifications. For beginners, the MaxLife products are not recommended for use in diesel applications, as the API standards only specify use for gasoline engines, with the API SN/SM listed on the back of the labels. The Premium Blue products (both 5w40 and 15w40) are licensed as API CJ-4 and are specified for use in heavy duty diesel applications that require stringent standards on ash content, unique dispersive polymer technology to control soot in diesel applications, allow higher levels of antiwear chemistry and other major components that attribute to diesel engines. Maxlife on the other hand contains levels of additive to help control seal leakage from older seals and friction and wear in higher mileage vehicles.
The Calcium and Magnesium detergent levels in the Premium Blue products is vastly different than the Maxlife additive signature that contains Calcium and Sodium detergents and the Zinc/Phosphorus level is also different which is a reflection of the different specifications the products must meet and also the application they function in.
The two products can also be separated by numerous specifications such as Viscosity Index, which is mostly attributed to the particular basestock of each one. In the Premium Blue line, we manufacturer both a conventional 15w40, as well as a synthetic 5w40, so comparison to the MaxLife product which is a synthetic blend, would range slightly according to which product was in question."
Not that I expected different, but it's clear the MaxLife product line is not suited for use in today's diesels, for a variety of reasons.
Now, is the European ML 10w-40 Diesel the same as our North American ML 10w-40? I don't know. I don't think it matters either. Why? Because even the Euro Diesel oil is only rated for "CF"; that's WAY back, folks. Most of today's decent synthetic PCMOs will carry a CF or CF-4 rating; because it's not that stringent!
The OP's quest was to use some HM ML oil to perhaps replenish the viability of a seal in his 7.8L Durmax (a commercial inline-6). That engine was developed along with the 6.6L Dmax, chronologically as I recall. So, I believe that all of them will require CH-4 or greater. To go backward to a CF rated lube is not a good choice.
Because the OP only was looking at 5 quarts out of 24 quarts, I don't know that it will really hurt anything. But I expect it won't help at all either. That is a bit more than 20% of the sump capacity. If it's not enough to hurt, then it's not enough to really make any differnce in helping the seals, either. I see it as a wash. But it is nearly a 20% loss of qualified HDEO additives.
Ultimately, he chose M1 HM 10w-40 to put in his Shell Rotella 15w-40. I don't think we're going to be very successful in getting an answer by asking Mobil how well they think their non-current-rated HDEO will compliment a competitor's current CJ-4 HDEO. And I don't think SOPUS is going to be very impressed with dumping out their CJ-4 product in favor of a competitor's CF rated PCMO, either ...
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Stick with the correct API requirement for your engine. I have no problem with a top-off quart of Maxlife, Mobil1, or even Lucas snot in an emergency. But, I would not purposely dump 5-quarts in.
Someone mentioned AutoRX. Toss a bottle in there for an entire interval and keep driving. Another option would to add a bottle of Lubegard Biotech Engine Protectant. The esters from either would give you a little seal treatment.
The seal might be wearing because of too much soot in the oil. You might benefit from slightly shorter OCI's. The other option is to install an oil bypass filter if you don't already have one.
Try a bottle of Penray 3182, STP StopLeaK, Lucas Stopleak, BarsLeak, or K&W/CRC EngineOilStopLeak. This way, you can keep your correct oil spec and not worry. And, any of the above will help take care of your seals just like ANY of the HM oils.
Someone mentioned AutoRX. Toss a bottle in there for an entire interval and keep driving. Another option would to add a bottle of Lubegard Biotech Engine Protectant. The esters from either would give you a little seal treatment.
The seal might be wearing because of too much soot in the oil. You might benefit from slightly shorter OCI's. The other option is to install an oil bypass filter if you don't already have one.
Try a bottle of Penray 3182, STP StopLeaK, Lucas Stopleak, BarsLeak, or K&W/CRC EngineOilStopLeak. This way, you can keep your correct oil spec and not worry. And, any of the above will help take care of your seals just like ANY of the HM oils.
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I asked Valvoline and actually got a fairly decent, quick response.
I limited my question (obviously) to the similarities/differences of MaxLife 10-40, which is the initial topic of this thread, and Valvoline Premium Blue (their HDEO).
Here is their response:
"Thank you for your questions and we would be happy to help. To begin with, we can 100% assure you that the two products are NOT the same formulation and meet many different testing specifications. For beginners, the MaxLife products are not recommended for use in diesel applications, as the API standards only specify use for gasoline engines, with the API SN/SM listed on the back of the labels. The Premium Blue products (both 5w40 and 15w40) are licensed as API CJ-4 and are specified for use in heavy duty diesel applications that require stringent standards on ash content, unique dispersive polymer technology to control soot in diesel applications, allow higher levels of antiwear chemistry and other major components that attribute to diesel engines. Maxlife on the other hand contains levels of additive to help control seal leakage from older seals and friction and wear in higher mileage vehicles.
The Calcium and Magnesium detergent levels in the Premium Blue products is vastly different than the Maxlife additive signature that contains Calcium and Sodium detergents and the Zinc/Phosphorus level is also different which is a reflection of the different specifications the products must meet and also the application they function in.
The two products can also be separated by numerous specifications such as Viscosity Index, which is mostly attributed to the particular basestock of each one. In the Premium Blue line, we manufacturer both a conventional 15w40, as well as a synthetic 5w40, so comparison to the MaxLife product which is a synthetic blend, would range slightly according to which product was in question."
Not that I expected different, but it's clear the MaxLife product line is not suited for use in today's diesels, for a variety of reasons.
Now, is the European ML 10w-40 Diesel the same as our North American ML 10w-40? I don't know. I don't think it matters either. Why? Because even the Euro Diesel oil is only rated for "CF"; that's WAY back, folks. Most of today's decent synthetic PCMOs will carry a CF or CF-4 rating; because it's not that stringent!
The OP's quest was to use some HM ML oil to perhaps replenish the viability of a seal in his 7.8L Durmax (a commercial inline-6). That engine was developed along with the 6.6L Dmax, chronologically as I recall. So, I believe that all of them will require CH-4 or greater. To go backward to a CF rated lube is not a good choice.
Because the OP only was looking at 5 quarts out of 24 quarts, I don't know that it will really hurt anything. But I expect it won't help at all either. That is a bit more than 20% of the sump capacity. If it's not enough to hurt, then it's not enough to really make any differnce in helping the seals, either. I see it as a wash. But it is nearly a 20% loss of qualified HDEO additives.
Ultimately, he chose M1 HM 10w-40 to put in his Shell Rotella 15w-40. I don't think we're going to be very successful in getting an answer by asking Mobil how well they think their non-current-rated HDEO will compliment a competitor's current CJ-4 HDEO. And I don't think SOPUS is going to be very impressed with dumping out their CJ-4 product in favor of a competitor's CF rated PCMO, either ...
Thanks for the efforts and good info! I was speculating that US Maxlife and Euro Maxlife Diesel were the same.
Don
I asked Valvoline and actually got a fairly decent, quick response.
I limited my question (obviously) to the similarities/differences of MaxLife 10-40, which is the initial topic of this thread, and Valvoline Premium Blue (their HDEO).
Here is their response:
"Thank you for your questions and we would be happy to help. To begin with, we can 100% assure you that the two products are NOT the same formulation and meet many different testing specifications. For beginners, the MaxLife products are not recommended for use in diesel applications, as the API standards only specify use for gasoline engines, with the API SN/SM listed on the back of the labels. The Premium Blue products (both 5w40 and 15w40) are licensed as API CJ-4 and are specified for use in heavy duty diesel applications that require stringent standards on ash content, unique dispersive polymer technology to control soot in diesel applications, allow higher levels of antiwear chemistry and other major components that attribute to diesel engines. Maxlife on the other hand contains levels of additive to help control seal leakage from older seals and friction and wear in higher mileage vehicles.
The Calcium and Magnesium detergent levels in the Premium Blue products is vastly different than the Maxlife additive signature that contains Calcium and Sodium detergents and the Zinc/Phosphorus level is also different which is a reflection of the different specifications the products must meet and also the application they function in.
The two products can also be separated by numerous specifications such as Viscosity Index, which is mostly attributed to the particular basestock of each one. In the Premium Blue line, we manufacturer both a conventional 15w40, as well as a synthetic 5w40, so comparison to the MaxLife product which is a synthetic blend, would range slightly according to which product was in question."
Not that I expected different, but it's clear the MaxLife product line is not suited for use in today's diesels, for a variety of reasons.
Now, is the European ML 10w-40 Diesel the same as our North American ML 10w-40? I don't know. I don't think it matters either. Why? Because even the Euro Diesel oil is only rated for "CF"; that's WAY back, folks. Most of today's decent synthetic PCMOs will carry a CF or CF-4 rating; because it's not that stringent!
The OP's quest was to use some HM ML oil to perhaps replenish the viability of a seal in his 7.8L Durmax (a commercial inline-6). That engine was developed along with the 6.6L Dmax, chronologically as I recall. So, I believe that all of them will require CH-4 or greater. To go backward to a CF rated lube is not a good choice.
Because the OP only was looking at 5 quarts out of 24 quarts, I don't know that it will really hurt anything. But I expect it won't help at all either. That is a bit more than 20% of the sump capacity. If it's not enough to hurt, then it's not enough to really make any differnce in helping the seals, either. I see it as a wash. But it is nearly a 20% loss of qualified HDEO additives.
Ultimately, he chose M1 HM 10w-40 to put in his Shell Rotella 15w-40. I don't think we're going to be very successful in getting an answer by asking Mobil how well they think their non-current-rated HDEO will compliment a competitor's current CJ-4 HDEO. And I don't think SOPUS is going to be very impressed with dumping out their CJ-4 product in favor of a competitor's CF rated PCMO, either ...
Thanks for the efforts and good info! I was speculating that US Maxlife and Euro Maxlife Diesel were the same.
Don
Originally Posted By: unDummy
Stick with the correct API requirement for your engine. I have no problem with a top-off quart of Maxlife, Mobil1, or even Lucas snot in an emergency. But, I would not purposely dump 5-quarts in.
Someone mentioned AutoRX. Toss a bottle in there for an entire interval and keep driving. Another option would to add a bottle of Lubegard Biotech Engine Protectant. The esters from either would give you a little seal treatment.
The seal might be wearing because of too much soot in the oil. You might benefit from slightly shorter OCI's. The other option is to install an oil bypass filter if you don't already have one.
Try a bottle of Penray 3182, STP StopLeaK, Lucas Stopleak, BarsLeak, or K&W/CRC EngineOilStopLeak. This way, you can keep your correct oil spec and not worry. And, any of the above will help take care of your seals just like ANY of the HM oils.
Thanks for the input regarding the additives.
As far as the soot levels this truck has always been serviced well. No longer than OLM. And has always had Rotella 15w40 (CH-4, CI-4 and CJ-4) oils so I would be surprised and to have a gunked up engine and pretty disappointed in Rotella as well. But like I said I don't think that is the issue.
Don
Stick with the correct API requirement for your engine. I have no problem with a top-off quart of Maxlife, Mobil1, or even Lucas snot in an emergency. But, I would not purposely dump 5-quarts in.
Someone mentioned AutoRX. Toss a bottle in there for an entire interval and keep driving. Another option would to add a bottle of Lubegard Biotech Engine Protectant. The esters from either would give you a little seal treatment.
The seal might be wearing because of too much soot in the oil. You might benefit from slightly shorter OCI's. The other option is to install an oil bypass filter if you don't already have one.
Try a bottle of Penray 3182, STP StopLeaK, Lucas Stopleak, BarsLeak, or K&W/CRC EngineOilStopLeak. This way, you can keep your correct oil spec and not worry. And, any of the above will help take care of your seals just like ANY of the HM oils.
Thanks for the input regarding the additives.
As far as the soot levels this truck has always been serviced well. No longer than OLM. And has always had Rotella 15w40 (CH-4, CI-4 and CJ-4) oils so I would be surprised and to have a gunked up engine and pretty disappointed in Rotella as well. But like I said I don't think that is the issue.
Don
dnewton3
Staff member
Originally Posted By: 3311
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I asked Valvoline and actually got a fairly decent, quick response.
I limited my question (obviously) to the similarities/differences of MaxLife 10-40, which is the initial topic of this thread, and Valvoline Premium Blue (their HDEO).
Here is their response:
"Thank you for your questions and we would be happy to help. To begin with, we can 100% assure you that the two products are NOT the same formulation and meet many different testing specifications. For beginners, the MaxLife products are not recommended for use in diesel applications, as the API standards only specify use for gasoline engines, with the API SN/SM listed on the back of the labels. The Premium Blue products (both 5w40 and 15w40) are licensed as API CJ-4 and are specified for use in heavy duty diesel applications that require stringent standards on ash content, unique dispersive polymer technology to control soot in diesel applications, allow higher levels of antiwear chemistry and other major components that attribute to diesel engines. Maxlife on the other hand contains levels of additive to help control seal leakage from older seals and friction and wear in higher mileage vehicles.
The Calcium and Magnesium detergent levels in the Premium Blue products is vastly different than the Maxlife additive signature that contains Calcium and Sodium detergents and the Zinc/Phosphorus level is also different which is a reflection of the different specifications the products must meet and also the application they function in.
The two products can also be separated by numerous specifications such as Viscosity Index, which is mostly attributed to the particular basestock of each one. In the Premium Blue line, we manufacturer both a conventional 15w40, as well as a synthetic 5w40, so comparison to the MaxLife product which is a synthetic blend, would range slightly according to which product was in question."
Not that I expected different, but it's clear the MaxLife product line is not suited for use in today's diesels, for a variety of reasons.
Now, is the European ML 10w-40 Diesel the same as our North American ML 10w-40? I don't know. I don't think it matters either. Why? Because even the Euro Diesel oil is only rated for "CF"; that's WAY back, folks. Most of today's decent synthetic PCMOs will carry a CF or CF-4 rating; because it's not that stringent!
The OP's quest was to use some HM ML oil to perhaps replenish the viability of a seal in his 7.8L Durmax (a commercial inline-6). That engine was developed along with the 6.6L Dmax, chronologically as I recall. So, I believe that all of them will require CH-4 or greater. To go backward to a CF rated lube is not a good choice.
Because the OP only was looking at 5 quarts out of 24 quarts, I don't know that it will really hurt anything. But I expect it won't help at all either. That is a bit more than 20% of the sump capacity. If it's not enough to hurt, then it's not enough to really make any differnce in helping the seals, either. I see it as a wash. But it is nearly a 20% loss of qualified HDEO additives.
Ultimately, he chose M1 HM 10w-40 to put in his Shell Rotella 15w-40. I don't think we're going to be very successful in getting an answer by asking Mobil how well they think their non-current-rated HDEO will compliment a competitor's current CJ-4 HDEO. And I don't think SOPUS is going to be very impressed with dumping out their CJ-4 product in favor of a competitor's CF rated PCMO, either ...
Thanks for the efforts and good info! I was speculating that US Maxlife and Euro Maxlife Diesel were the same.
Don
If you really want to know if they are the same, email them just like I did. Their response was quick and detailed.
Even if US ML and Euro ML are the same, they are not approved for the Dmax.
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I asked Valvoline and actually got a fairly decent, quick response.
I limited my question (obviously) to the similarities/differences of MaxLife 10-40, which is the initial topic of this thread, and Valvoline Premium Blue (their HDEO).
Here is their response:
"Thank you for your questions and we would be happy to help. To begin with, we can 100% assure you that the two products are NOT the same formulation and meet many different testing specifications. For beginners, the MaxLife products are not recommended for use in diesel applications, as the API standards only specify use for gasoline engines, with the API SN/SM listed on the back of the labels. The Premium Blue products (both 5w40 and 15w40) are licensed as API CJ-4 and are specified for use in heavy duty diesel applications that require stringent standards on ash content, unique dispersive polymer technology to control soot in diesel applications, allow higher levels of antiwear chemistry and other major components that attribute to diesel engines. Maxlife on the other hand contains levels of additive to help control seal leakage from older seals and friction and wear in higher mileage vehicles.
The Calcium and Magnesium detergent levels in the Premium Blue products is vastly different than the Maxlife additive signature that contains Calcium and Sodium detergents and the Zinc/Phosphorus level is also different which is a reflection of the different specifications the products must meet and also the application they function in.
The two products can also be separated by numerous specifications such as Viscosity Index, which is mostly attributed to the particular basestock of each one. In the Premium Blue line, we manufacturer both a conventional 15w40, as well as a synthetic 5w40, so comparison to the MaxLife product which is a synthetic blend, would range slightly according to which product was in question."
Not that I expected different, but it's clear the MaxLife product line is not suited for use in today's diesels, for a variety of reasons.
Now, is the European ML 10w-40 Diesel the same as our North American ML 10w-40? I don't know. I don't think it matters either. Why? Because even the Euro Diesel oil is only rated for "CF"; that's WAY back, folks. Most of today's decent synthetic PCMOs will carry a CF or CF-4 rating; because it's not that stringent!
The OP's quest was to use some HM ML oil to perhaps replenish the viability of a seal in his 7.8L Durmax (a commercial inline-6). That engine was developed along with the 6.6L Dmax, chronologically as I recall. So, I believe that all of them will require CH-4 or greater. To go backward to a CF rated lube is not a good choice.
Because the OP only was looking at 5 quarts out of 24 quarts, I don't know that it will really hurt anything. But I expect it won't help at all either. That is a bit more than 20% of the sump capacity. If it's not enough to hurt, then it's not enough to really make any differnce in helping the seals, either. I see it as a wash. But it is nearly a 20% loss of qualified HDEO additives.
Ultimately, he chose M1 HM 10w-40 to put in his Shell Rotella 15w-40. I don't think we're going to be very successful in getting an answer by asking Mobil how well they think their non-current-rated HDEO will compliment a competitor's current CJ-4 HDEO. And I don't think SOPUS is going to be very impressed with dumping out their CJ-4 product in favor of a competitor's CF rated PCMO, either ...
Thanks for the efforts and good info! I was speculating that US Maxlife and Euro Maxlife Diesel were the same.
Don
If you really want to know if they are the same, email them just like I did. Their response was quick and detailed.
Even if US ML and Euro ML are the same, they are not approved for the Dmax.
Decided to flip through our tractor's owners manual as I couldn't remember the API rating it called for. Surprisingly it was API CD.
Maybe an experiment with ML or M1 HM is in order.
Maybe an experiment with ML or M1 HM is in order.
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