I just ventured over to john deeres website to review their specs on their synthetic CH-4 rated 0w40 oil...and looks (spec wise) to be very robust. I was wondering with the CH-4 designation...does this mean even higher Zinc/Phosphurus levels than a CI-4 oil?? My truck (duramax LBZ) does not require a CJ-4 oil, as it has no DPF system...does anyone have a VOA or UOA on this oil? I hear it is VERY expensive though....
John Deere 0W40 (CH-4)
- Thread starter Ponch
- Start date
- Status
This oil is quite popular and well loved around here. There are some VOA and UOA on in that show something like 1450ppm of zinc, and a lot of detergent and other anti-wear additives.
dnewton3
Staff member
Yes, it's very good stuff.
Yes, you can run it in your Dmax.
Yes, it's very expensive.
If you want to know about the specific elemental concentrations for oils, you'll have to research each one individually (seems that you're on that quest anyway). You can also research the limits of the elements via the API site.
OK - now for a little jest from me to you; meant in good humor.
Ponch - seems like you're on a never-ending quest for the "perfect" oil. What's wrong with the eaisly attained, high quality, reasonably priced CJ-4 lubes all around you? I would think by now you'd know that CJ-4s are excellent. Seems to me you're putting more emphasis on the VOAs and PDS, than the UOAs and such. Nothing wrong with knowing the inputs, but the outputs are what matter most.
Yes, a CH-4 and CI-4 will do well in the Dmax, but so will the CI-4+ and CJ-4. There are benefits to the CJ-4 over the other previous iterations, such as much better soot control. With the reduction of sulphur in the fuel, the TBN is not nearly as important as it once was. In the end, your 2006 LBZ really will run quite well with any of those.
Certainly nothing wrong with asking questions, but it seems you keep looking for the "one" magic, perfect formulation; haven't you figured out by now that the "right" fluid is not limited to only one brand/grade?
Yes - it's cold where you live, but it's cold here too (down to zero deg F OAT this weekend at my house). Try a 10w-30 HDEO. I cannot fathom you cannot find either a dino or semi-syn in 10w-30 (such as T5), given the propensity of farm supply stores and Wal-Marts in MI. Your average low in Bay City is 14 deg F; mine is 18 deg F in Indy. I suspect you occasionally see, but not frequently, below zero temps just like I do. Are you aware that the GM "preferred" vis is 15w-40 all the way down to zero deg F? I prefer a lighter grade, but GM/Isuzu seem confident in their statement; it hasn't changed since the Dmax was introduced. GM does allow 10w-30 or 5w-40 (IIRC) as alternatives; that's why I use 10w-30 year round.
The Deere oil you inquire about is probably 3x or 4x more expensive than a commonly available, brand name HDEO. Do you think you'll get 3x or 4x "better" wear results, or "better" cold cranking, by using the Deere oil over a common 10w-30 HDEO?
I'm not trying to come down on you. I just don't understand why you seem to be so OCD about the oil in your Dmax.
(... yes, I do realize that is the BITOG way ... and most of us wouldn't be members here if we weren't interested).
Presuming you choose an appropriate API and grade level, the Dmax simply isn't that sensitive to the oil selection. Pick one that you like, and rest easy, dear sir.
I'm concerned you're going to suffer a self-induced mental medical emergency!
Yes, you can run it in your Dmax.
Yes, it's very expensive.
If you want to know about the specific elemental concentrations for oils, you'll have to research each one individually (seems that you're on that quest anyway). You can also research the limits of the elements via the API site.
OK - now for a little jest from me to you; meant in good humor.
Ponch - seems like you're on a never-ending quest for the "perfect" oil. What's wrong with the eaisly attained, high quality, reasonably priced CJ-4 lubes all around you? I would think by now you'd know that CJ-4s are excellent. Seems to me you're putting more emphasis on the VOAs and PDS, than the UOAs and such. Nothing wrong with knowing the inputs, but the outputs are what matter most.
Yes, a CH-4 and CI-4 will do well in the Dmax, but so will the CI-4+ and CJ-4. There are benefits to the CJ-4 over the other previous iterations, such as much better soot control. With the reduction of sulphur in the fuel, the TBN is not nearly as important as it once was. In the end, your 2006 LBZ really will run quite well with any of those.
Certainly nothing wrong with asking questions, but it seems you keep looking for the "one" magic, perfect formulation; haven't you figured out by now that the "right" fluid is not limited to only one brand/grade?
Yes - it's cold where you live, but it's cold here too (down to zero deg F OAT this weekend at my house). Try a 10w-30 HDEO. I cannot fathom you cannot find either a dino or semi-syn in 10w-30 (such as T5), given the propensity of farm supply stores and Wal-Marts in MI. Your average low in Bay City is 14 deg F; mine is 18 deg F in Indy. I suspect you occasionally see, but not frequently, below zero temps just like I do. Are you aware that the GM "preferred" vis is 15w-40 all the way down to zero deg F? I prefer a lighter grade, but GM/Isuzu seem confident in their statement; it hasn't changed since the Dmax was introduced. GM does allow 10w-30 or 5w-40 (IIRC) as alternatives; that's why I use 10w-30 year round.
The Deere oil you inquire about is probably 3x or 4x more expensive than a commonly available, brand name HDEO. Do you think you'll get 3x or 4x "better" wear results, or "better" cold cranking, by using the Deere oil over a common 10w-30 HDEO?
I'm not trying to come down on you. I just don't understand why you seem to be so OCD about the oil in your Dmax.
(... yes, I do realize that is the BITOG way ... and most of us wouldn't be members here if we weren't interested).
Presuming you choose an appropriate API and grade level, the Dmax simply isn't that sensitive to the oil selection. Pick one that you like, and rest easy, dear sir.
I'm concerned you're going to suffer a self-induced mental medical emergency!
Last edited:
"dnewton 3" I was waiting for your reply to my discussion regarding the Amsoil HDD but did NOT hear from you!...but that is okay....FIRST I must admit that this website has made me insanely sick in regards to my oil choice ( in anything I own gas or diesel powered).....I will give you some background about my "OCD" as you called it in your prior response to this post...Before I joined this forum I was always told and perhaps brainwashed that "Amsoil is the "ONLY" way to go...and that your vehicle will "ONLY" reach an obsurd amount of miles on a "true" synthetic oil such as "Amsoil" the only "true" synthetic oil in the whole wide world that helps cold starts, and prevents turbo failure...I have researched oil for years before joining this forum, ONLY to be flooded by Amsoil websites every time I google anything to do with motor oil...gas or diesel...but then I tried this Amsoil...in my vehicle...two different oils in my vehicle, and because I KNOW that Amsoil reads these forums I will not tell you my vehicle name or account number....but I will tell you that they did NOT live up to my standards after only 8,000 miles and 6 months... and so I was again confused on where to turn to for the best "bang for buck" oil which will protect my vehicle the way I drive it and treat it......if this so called "best oil on earth" didnt help me out with my 30,000 plus dollar investment..than how could a "conventional oil" do me much better?? THIS is the reason from for my so called "OCD".......I work very hard to pay for my vehicles, and want the VERY best oil (and filter) that I can afford for them. ALSO, I have upgraded my duramax with a computer tuner...which in my opinion stresses the oil even more than what you have done to your duramax with a 10w30. So, again I joined this forum to gain info in the best choice for my vehicle which in turn may be different from what you do with yours. Hope this explains my "OCD" a bit better?
No "self induced mental medical emergencies" here dnewton3.....you on the other hand seem to obsess more about oil than me.....in fact I have read some forums on www.dieselplace.com where YOU have indeed upset some of their fellow members talking "condescending" to them and upsetting them....."forum moderator" or not on here, you must treat everyone with respect.....whether you work in a "quality control enviroment" or not....kick me off this forum or do whatever you want....but I will tell you this......YOU come across a cocky! So help me out, or kick me off "dave newton" Im not a difficult person to deal with......but I ALWAYS call it "like it is" and you Mr. Newton should proof-read your posts before hitting enter! -Mr. "OCD"
If you choose to insult me on front of BITOG members "dave newton quality control specialist from indianapolis who obsesses about oil " by calling me "OCD"...please send me a private message rather then insulting me in front of the entire BITOG community! THANKS!!
Originally Posted By: Ponch
I just ventured over to john deeres website to review their specs on their synthetic CH-4 rated 0w40 oil...and looks (spec wise) to be very robust. I was wondering with the CH-4 designation...does this mean even higher Zinc/Phosphurus levels than a CI-4 oil?? My truck (duramax LBZ) does not require a CJ-4 oil, as it has no DPF system...does anyone have a VOA or UOA on this oil? I hear it is VERY expensive though....
Ponch I too live in Michigan and I chose to run Rotella T6 for 5K intervals in my Cummins 5.9 diesel. I just completed the second fill and have enjoyed easy starting in sub zero temps. I use Fleetguard Strato filters too with Stanadyne Performance diesel fuel additive.
Diesel Injector Service in Bay City sells Stanadyne and they are perhaps one of the most friendly and helpful businesses regarding diesel applications.
Here are my thoughts: Pick a synthetic oil and stick with it. Use the best oil filters your money can buy. Purchase quality diesel fuel and use a premium fuel additive with every fill. Lastly, change your fuel filter two times per year.
If money was no object for me I would try to the Redline 15w-40 Diesel Product however I am watching the pennies and have been more than happy with the overall performance of my truck using the Rotella but one can pick from many great syn oils out there and I am sure will be met with great results.
As for the forum, I expect to hear different opinions and although I don't always agree with others that is the greatest thing about this country. We are free to talk openly, opinions and all.
Keep us informed on your selection process and share with us the profile of your filter choices, intervals, driving style etc. That helps others know what is working and not working for you.
Cheers Mate!
I just ventured over to john deeres website to review their specs on their synthetic CH-4 rated 0w40 oil...and looks (spec wise) to be very robust. I was wondering with the CH-4 designation...does this mean even higher Zinc/Phosphurus levels than a CI-4 oil?? My truck (duramax LBZ) does not require a CJ-4 oil, as it has no DPF system...does anyone have a VOA or UOA on this oil? I hear it is VERY expensive though....
Ponch I too live in Michigan and I chose to run Rotella T6 for 5K intervals in my Cummins 5.9 diesel. I just completed the second fill and have enjoyed easy starting in sub zero temps. I use Fleetguard Strato filters too with Stanadyne Performance diesel fuel additive.
Diesel Injector Service in Bay City sells Stanadyne and they are perhaps one of the most friendly and helpful businesses regarding diesel applications.
Here are my thoughts: Pick a synthetic oil and stick with it. Use the best oil filters your money can buy. Purchase quality diesel fuel and use a premium fuel additive with every fill. Lastly, change your fuel filter two times per year.
If money was no object for me I would try to the Redline 15w-40 Diesel Product however I am watching the pennies and have been more than happy with the overall performance of my truck using the Rotella but one can pick from many great syn oils out there and I am sure will be met with great results.
As for the forum, I expect to hear different opinions and although I don't always agree with others that is the greatest thing about this country. We are free to talk openly, opinions and all.
Keep us informed on your selection process and share with us the profile of your filter choices, intervals, driving style etc. That helps others know what is working and not working for you.
Cheers Mate!
Last edited:
I just love JD oil's there plus 50 line up is outstanding! i've got pails of it in stash if you can get by with a conventional there 15w40 or 10w30 is built very well.
@JXW you got that right DFI in BC is a very high quality shop i know Gary well he knows his [censored] and they do the job right they get pumps sent to them from all over the country/state,we've had countless pumps rebuilt there.
@JXW you got that right DFI in BC is a very high quality shop i know Gary well he knows his [censored] and they do the job right they get pumps sent to them from all over the country/state,we've had countless pumps rebuilt there.
I couldn't find the 0-40w synthetic Deere oil at my local dealer. I wonder if they don't sell enough of it here to make it worth it??... I did get a 5 gal pail of the Deere 10-30w and that is very ROBUST too.
Originally Posted By: Blaze
I couldn't find the 0-40w synthetic Deere oil at my local dealer. I wonder if they don't sell enough of it here to make it worth it??... I did get a 5 gal pail of the Deere 10-30w and that is very ROBUST too.
Do dealer search if you have another dealer by you they can ship it in to your local store.
I couldn't find the 0-40w synthetic Deere oil at my local dealer. I wonder if they don't sell enough of it here to make it worth it??... I did get a 5 gal pail of the Deere 10-30w and that is very ROBUST too.
Do dealer search if you have another dealer by you they can ship it in to your local store.
dnewton3
Staff member
Ponch - I told you I was just "jest"ing with you. If you didn't take it that way, then I owe you an apology. Some of us joke with each other, some don't. Apparently I misread you. I'm sorry. It was wrong for me to say you're OCD. Sorry about that. If you don't want me to joke with you, then I won't. And my apology is genuine.
That being said, let's recap some of your threads in just this month, on this HDEO sub-forum alone.
1) a thread about Rotella rumors
2) a thread questioning the validity of 5w-40 useage
3) a thread about the validity of monograde Rotella 30 wt
4) a thread about CI-4 oils for pre-2007 vehicles
5) a thread (this very one) about JD 10w-40
6) a thread about high Cu in Amsoil
And let's not forget this one from late last year where you clearly indicate you've "finally made an oil decision": http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2120758&page=1
So, if you made your "final" decision in December 2010 (last month), why 6 more threads (in just three weeks this January) where you are seemingly yet again on the quest for the "best" oil ever?
That being said, let's recap some of your threads in just this month, on this HDEO sub-forum alone.
1) a thread about Rotella rumors
2) a thread questioning the validity of 5w-40 useage
3) a thread about the validity of monograde Rotella 30 wt
4) a thread about CI-4 oils for pre-2007 vehicles
5) a thread (this very one) about JD 10w-40
6) a thread about high Cu in Amsoil
And let's not forget this one from late last year where you clearly indicate you've "finally made an oil decision": http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2120758&page=1
So, if you made your "final" decision in December 2010 (last month), why 6 more threads (in just three weeks this January) where you are seemingly yet again on the quest for the "best" oil ever?
Last edited:
there is alot of the plus 50 0w-40 (CH-4) out there available, my dealer alone has a couple of pallets of 5 gal. pails.
Of the several threads I have posted on here it can be said I am somewhat of a plus 50 connoisseur. I use it exclusively in all of our diesel engines and have never had a bad UOA or an oil related failure.
Of the several threads I have posted on here it can be said I am somewhat of a plus 50 connoisseur. I use it exclusively in all of our diesel engines and have never had a bad UOA or an oil related failure.
Sorry to interject, but I don't see any intent to offend. Most of us here are "OCD" to one degree or another with respect to oil. Some want to find the absolute "best" lubrication for their vehicles; others want to find the most cost effective solution with respect to their maintenance. I've fallen in both camps from time to time, and it's clear one can go overboard in either direction.
I've been trying to follow an approach of least resistance, which is what worked for me in fleet maintenance, and it's proving to work well in my personal vehicles - there's no reason why it shouldn't, if it works in a fleet.
Find a reasonably priced conventional that is also reasonably available and meets specifications, and stick with it. If one wants to use synthetics, do so if it can extend OCIs or is mandated by the manufacturer. Or, perhaps it simplifies oil choice over the entire year with respect to climate and the manufacturer's viscosity recommendations.
JD oil meeting specs will serve you will, no doubt. Price and availability are always limiting factors. I can get JD oil here easily and at a fairly reasonable price, since there are enough JD dealerships here and plenty of competition when it comes to HDEO in this neck of the woods.
There is no perfect oil out there, but our engines will likely outlast the body and transmission anyhow. So, the perfect lube quest might be a waste. On the other hand, buying a good deal is fine too, so long as one doesn't berate oneself constantly because Walmart dropped the price by a dollar a gallon the week after one stocked up, either.
I have to remind myself of it, too. My engine isn't going to die if I don't treat it to the most expensive synthetic on the market meeting the highest specifications. I'm also not going to go bankrupt by missing the latest rollback, either.
I've been trying to follow an approach of least resistance, which is what worked for me in fleet maintenance, and it's proving to work well in my personal vehicles - there's no reason why it shouldn't, if it works in a fleet.
Find a reasonably priced conventional that is also reasonably available and meets specifications, and stick with it. If one wants to use synthetics, do so if it can extend OCIs or is mandated by the manufacturer. Or, perhaps it simplifies oil choice over the entire year with respect to climate and the manufacturer's viscosity recommendations.
JD oil meeting specs will serve you will, no doubt. Price and availability are always limiting factors. I can get JD oil here easily and at a fairly reasonable price, since there are enough JD dealerships here and plenty of competition when it comes to HDEO in this neck of the woods.
There is no perfect oil out there, but our engines will likely outlast the body and transmission anyhow. So, the perfect lube quest might be a waste. On the other hand, buying a good deal is fine too, so long as one doesn't berate oneself constantly because Walmart dropped the price by a dollar a gallon the week after one stocked up, either.
I have to remind myself of it, too. My engine isn't going to die if I don't treat it to the most expensive synthetic on the market meeting the highest specifications. I'm also not going to go bankrupt by missing the latest rollback, either.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Sorry to interject, but I don't see any intent to offend. Most of us here are "OCD" to one degree or another with respect to oil. Some want to find the absolute "best" lubrication for their vehicles; others want to find the most cost effective solution with respect to their maintenance. I've fallen in both camps from time to time, and it's clear one can go overboard in either direction.
I've been trying to follow an approach of least resistance, which is what worked for me in fleet maintenance, and it's proving to work well in my personal vehicles - there's no reason why it shouldn't, if it works in a fleet.
Find a reasonably priced conventional that is also reasonably available and meets specifications, and stick with it. If one wants to use synthetics, do so if it can extend OCIs or is mandated by the manufacturer. Or, perhaps it simplifies oil choice over the entire year with respect to climate and the manufacturer's viscosity recommendations.
JD oil meeting specs will serve you will, no doubt. Price and availability are always limiting factors. I can get JD oil here easily and at a fairly reasonable price, since there are enough JD dealerships here and plenty of competition when it comes to HDEO in this neck of the woods.
There is no perfect oil out there, but our engines will likely outlast the body and transmission anyhow. So, the perfect lube quest might be a waste. On the other hand, buying a good deal is fine too, so long as one doesn't berate oneself constantly because Walmart dropped the price by a dollar a gallon the week after one stocked up, either.
I have to remind myself of it, too. My engine isn't going to die if I don't treat it to the most expensive synthetic on the market meeting the highest specifications. I'm also not going to go bankrupt by missing the latest rollback, either.
+ 1
Sorry to interject, but I don't see any intent to offend. Most of us here are "OCD" to one degree or another with respect to oil. Some want to find the absolute "best" lubrication for their vehicles; others want to find the most cost effective solution with respect to their maintenance. I've fallen in both camps from time to time, and it's clear one can go overboard in either direction.
I've been trying to follow an approach of least resistance, which is what worked for me in fleet maintenance, and it's proving to work well in my personal vehicles - there's no reason why it shouldn't, if it works in a fleet.
Find a reasonably priced conventional that is also reasonably available and meets specifications, and stick with it. If one wants to use synthetics, do so if it can extend OCIs or is mandated by the manufacturer. Or, perhaps it simplifies oil choice over the entire year with respect to climate and the manufacturer's viscosity recommendations.
JD oil meeting specs will serve you will, no doubt. Price and availability are always limiting factors. I can get JD oil here easily and at a fairly reasonable price, since there are enough JD dealerships here and plenty of competition when it comes to HDEO in this neck of the woods.
There is no perfect oil out there, but our engines will likely outlast the body and transmission anyhow. So, the perfect lube quest might be a waste. On the other hand, buying a good deal is fine too, so long as one doesn't berate oneself constantly because Walmart dropped the price by a dollar a gallon the week after one stocked up, either.
I have to remind myself of it, too. My engine isn't going to die if I don't treat it to the most expensive synthetic on the market meeting the highest specifications. I'm also not going to go bankrupt by missing the latest rollback, either.
+ 1
-1
I've seen some bad UOA with their 0w40. Might be better off with T6 which is usually cheaper.
Synth for cold starts and to make up for some engineering snafus(like high oil temps and pathetic oil cooling).
So, I can't agree with the "just use cheap mineral oil" and "follow your manufacturers recommendations".
Get a couple of UOAs using the JD 0w40 and see how it does.
Research the your engine family to see if you might have some under-engineering or cost-cutting caused issues.
I've seen some bad UOA with their 0w40. Might be better off with T6 which is usually cheaper.
Synth for cold starts and to make up for some engineering snafus(like high oil temps and pathetic oil cooling).
So, I can't agree with the "just use cheap mineral oil" and "follow your manufacturers recommendations".
Get a couple of UOAs using the JD 0w40 and see how it does.
Research the your engine family to see if you might have some under-engineering or cost-cutting caused issues.
dnewton3
Staff member
It's a Duramax; one of the better engineered and performing light-duty diesels out there. Typically, these engines do well with any oil. Very common to have stellar UOA results on dino oil even up to 10k miles. The environment, the OCI, the loads all well within "normal" standards. Synthetics are not necessary in this case. Wanted? Perhaps. Needed? No. I have even seen a few Dmax UOAs with dino oil, and used in heavy towing daily, and STILL get good UOA results.
I would agree that equipment family traits do need to be taken into account when developing your maintenance plan, but that is just one of many things in a long list of "should consider" topics.
In this case, the Dmax is very robust and not a reason (in itself) to chose a syn. It's not cold enough there to warrant a syn. Only the OCI, if extended, would warrant the syn.
I would agree that equipment family traits do need to be taken into account when developing your maintenance plan, but that is just one of many things in a long list of "should consider" topics.
In this case, the Dmax is very robust and not a reason (in itself) to chose a syn. It's not cold enough there to warrant a syn. Only the OCI, if extended, would warrant the syn.
Last edited:
I'm with dnewton on this one-if your injectors don't fail, just about ANY 15W40 or 5W40 will allow your Dmax to outlast the truck it's installed in! Just like my Cummins/Dodge! Now, back to our regularly scheduled "Don Quixote"-like search for the world's best diesel oil...
Then the aftermarket parts and upgraded OIL and ATF coolers..., wouldn't be needed. But for many, they are needed.
It may be better engineered and still may have 'year specific' issues. I've never seen anything from an automaker that didn't need an improvement somewhere. Print the TSBs for the years and hit the LBZ specific forums/websites to really see how good it is.
I'll stick with my synthetic and UOA recommendations until proven otherwise.
Which one is it? or what new/old stock is available?
https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/docum...us_50_Synthetic
http://www.deere.com/en_US/parts/partsinfo/oils_and_lubricants/oil_0w40.html
It may be better engineered and still may have 'year specific' issues. I've never seen anything from an automaker that didn't need an improvement somewhere. Print the TSBs for the years and hit the LBZ specific forums/websites to really see how good it is.
I'll stick with my synthetic and UOA recommendations until proven otherwise.
Which one is it? or what new/old stock is available?
https://jdparts.deere.com/partsmkt/docum...us_50_Synthetic
http://www.deere.com/en_US/parts/partsinfo/oils_and_lubricants/oil_0w40.html
- Status
Similar threads
- Sticky
