Tell Me About Subaru Boxer Engine

[doitmyself]

Just back from the Detroit Auto Show!!! Regarding the Subaru 4 cyl. boxer engine:

Does it live up to it's perceived high quality/reliability reputation?

Is is difficult to service? Both DIY maintenance and maybe the occasional dealer/shop required repair?

I am trying to figure out if its claimed quality might be offset by higher maintenance costs and headaches.

The 2011 engine is supposed to be a new design with timing chain vs. the old belt.

Thanks. Hope to hear from some owners.

 

[webfors]

Love mine. Very easy to maintain and I don't think it's any more expensive than any other car, other than a quart of diff fluid every 30k.

 

[Viet]

I love mine also... The sound of the engine sets it apart from the rest. Maintenance if fairly easy if you have a non-turbo model. The turbo models have more parts involved. I'm not familiar with the H6 engines available in the Tribeca and Legacy. I just know that it is a bigger engine because of 2 extra cylinders. The H6 is kinda rare since Subaru makes very few of them

 

[doitmyself]

Thanks guys. I apologize for not doing a search first, because this engine has been discussed a bit. But, past discussions have mostly turned into debates about design and engineering.

So, if we can keep this thread about ownership experiences, there should be some new information to share.

Unfortunately, with it now being a new design, the reliability factor is yet to be determined.

 

[Chris142]

When I was about 8 years old (1977) my dad was looking to buy a pickup. I went with him to several new car dealers. I had my heart set on him buying a new Jeep J10 Honcho that was at the Jeep dealer.

Truck had a 401, 4sp, 4x4 and was brown with Orange, Yellow and red stripes.

How does this fit in with this Subaru thread you ask?
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Because he came home with a brand new 1977 Subaru brat!

I think I cried the night I saw that Subaru in the driveway and not the Honcho.

It was a very dependable car. The only problems I remember it having was the clutch cable broke, the shifter used a bolt for a linkage so the shifter got pretty sloppy and he blew a fuseable link once changing spark plugs but that was not the cars fault.

When I turned 16 I took it to a local muffler shop and had dual glasspacks put on it. It ran pretty good after that and was the first car that I flew. I flew it often and that didn't seem to hurt the alignment any.

If I was looking to buy a car a Subaru would be high on my list of possible cars I would buy.

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
Because he came home with a brand new 1977 Subaru brat!


Talk about memories!

So, you were one of those early "Bi curious" guys:

BRAT = Bi-drive Recreational All-terrain Transporter

 

[rshunter]

They've been tough little cars for a very long time...

Subaru in American Rallying - '71 to '73 Baja 500

 

[Bill in Utah]

The new Subaru motor is only in the Forestor IIRC. It's DI so I'd pass if I could get the old motor.

I like the chains vs belts but the DI is enough to turn me away. Like my 2007 Outback. A little under powered at 11,000 feet (most of everything is) but it has done very well over the 50k miles we have had it.

The boxer motor is more complex vs a I4. Two of everything. Also the oil filter is wrapped by headers and cats so you have to allow it to cool down to prevent burning your hand and cover everything with foil to prevent oil hitting the exhast parts.

Mid 20's over all for MPG and high 20's on the freeway loaded with the Auto (90/10).

VERY safe car (ours was hit by a semi @ 8k miles and it protected the wife well. $12k later and you can not tell where it was hit)

EXCELLENT in snow (esp with good tires).

Take care, Bill

 

[Eddie]

My 2000 Forester was the best vehicle I've ever owned. Running strong when I sold it at 127,000 miles to a neighbor who had 154,000 on it when he moved away. No major issues with it. Just an excellent vehicle.

 

[doitmyself]

Bill,

This article implies that this first version is not DI.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/09...rect-injection/

In fact, the "tone" I get from studying several Subaru sites is that Subaru is slow to bring out changes, but this engine was designed for "future" improvements. Two being DI and a better transmission.

So, while some criticize Subie for not bringing out a bunch of changes at once, others applaud them, saying they are going to work all the bugs out first. I guess DI is especially challenging.

It would be tough to buy a brand new designed engine right out of the starting block.

 

[JTK]

In addition to the reliability of the Boxer, Subaru transmissions seem to go on forever too. We've had a few in the family go beyond 200Kmi. The only issue we've had with Subaru in general is the vehicle rusting away. Then again, what doesn't in Buffalo NY.

Joel

 

[Pop_Rivit]

Our 2005 Outback has been trouble free and will turn over to 100K in a few weeks.

The little maintenance that I've had to do (coolant change, belt change, etc) has been extremely easy. Most of the maintenance items are right out in the open and easy to access. The rest of the drive train is just as easy for maintenance such as fluid changes.

As much as I'd like to tell you more I simply haven't had the need for any repairs or maintenance other than a few routine items. I'll do the timing belt sometime this summer, but I plan to have it done. A local shop has estimated around $500, which I don't feel is unreasonable since it included a few extra items like plugs, PCV valve, etc.

I would not hesitate to purchase another one based on my current experience.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Bill,

This article implies that this first version is not DI.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/09...rect-injection/

In fact, the "tone" I get from studying several Subaru sites is that Subaru is slow to bring out changes, but this engine was designed for "future" improvements. Two being DI and a better transmission.

So, while some criticize Subie for not bringing out a bunch of changes at once, others applaud them, saying they are going to work all the bugs out first. I guess DI is especially challenging.

It would be tough to buy a brand new designed engine right out of the starting block.


Subaru drive magazine.

Quote:
The fuel injectors were moved to the cylinder heads.
Am I misunderstanding what DI is? Injectors on the intake manifold is one thing into the cyl head is ___?

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Bill,

This article implies that this first version is not DI.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/09...rect-injection/

In fact, the "tone" I get from studying several Subaru sites is that Subaru is slow to bring out changes, but this engine was designed for "future" improvements. Two being DI and a better transmission.

So, while some criticize Subie for not bringing out a bunch of changes at once, others applaud them, saying they are going to work all the bugs out first. I guess DI is especially challenging.

It would be tough to buy a brand new designed engine right out of the starting block.


Subaru drive magazine.

Quote:
The fuel injectors were moved to the cylinder heads.
Am I misunderstanding what DI is? Injectors on the intake manifold is one thing into the cyl head is ___?


If It's not DI, I suppose the injectors could be located in the intake port, just above the valve, instead of bolted into the Intake manifold itself.

If it says it's not DI that is the only thing I can think of.

 

[doitmyself]

Bill.....what NickR said. From my brief internet study:

DI is high pressure (2000 lb. +) fuel PUSHED DIRECTLY into the combustion chamber, NOT going through the intake valve.


Port or other fuel injection is fuel at lower pressures being injected into the air stream BEFORE the intake valves and SUCKED into the combustion chamber. Sounds like Subaru just moved the injection location closer to the cylinders.

It's a "push/suck" difference to my understanding.

And....what Pop Rivet said, is what I wanted to hear.

 

[meep]

1.8L 1990 Loyale, SPFI. reliable, quirky. so-so interior, solid chassis, dead reliable, easy to work on. 5 sp ratios were weird. steep 1st gear, big gap to 2nd. I took that poor 4wd places that subarus should never go. had alignment problems that required the dealer to bend things until it went away. nary a problem more.

97 legacy 2.2L 5spd AWD. Bulletproof. drove the he77 out of this car. underpowered, so it saw daily redline, heel-toe shifts, drifts on beltway ramps. Saw air many times. Saw a lot of dirt. 10,000 mile syn oil changes. Never failed. never stalled. never hiccuped. valves still to-spec at 90,000 miles. zero deposits under the valve covers. not a bad wrench angle under that hood. that said, it was underpowered, and I hated being that close to the ground in congested traffic. was always tailgated badly in that car. would have preferred an OB.

Brother has a 2.5L 5spd OB, maybe 2001? lives in it. he's a career nature freak-- leads climbing expeditions, river guide, ski instructor. rolled his OB off a ravine dodging a moose. didn't break any glass. got it back on all fours, and it keeps going. Never needs an alignment....

I think you either love or hate the styling. no middle ground with their designs.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself

And....what Pop Rivet said, is what I wanted to hear.


Interesting...

 

[doitmyself]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: doitmyself

And....what Pop Rivet said, is what I wanted to hear.


Interesting...

His overall comments are positive. But his comments regarding "ease of access and ease of basic maintenance" are especially important to me.

Of course I would confirm his comments during comparison shopping, but the trouble some people have of doing routine work, such as spark plugs, annoys me. I'm already the slowest mechanic on earth....I don't need anymore challenges.

The added complexity of AWD concerns me also, but that's for another thread.

Bill, are you suggesting that this engine is not easy to service?

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: doitmyself

And....what Pop Rivet said, is what I wanted to hear.


Interesting...

His overall comments are positive. But his comments regarding "ease of access and ease of basic maintenance" are especially important to me.

Of course I would confirm his comments during comparison shopping, but the trouble some people have of doing routine work, such as spark plugs, annoys me. I'm already the slowest mechanic on earth....I don't need anymore challenges.

The added complexity of AWD concerns me also, but that's for another thread.

Bill, are you suggesting that this engine is not easy to service?


I think I said in my comment about some items. Compared to what? Its about 400% harder to work on than my Corolla. About 300% easier to work on than my Dad's Honda power Vue.

The oil changes are easy if you don't change the oil filter.

Oil plug;

Oil filler (and if you look at the head vs frame not too much room)

Plus are hard to get to IMO. The left side is easier than the right. (right you have take the airbox out it looks like) I have NOT tried to replace the 30k plugs and will do them @ 60k or engine starts to run rough or MPG falls)

You have to change out the coolant every 30k miles or 3 years. You have to use coolant conditioner (stop leak) EVERYTIME.

You do have an 4 cyl engine. It has 2 heads, 2 head gaskets, two intake manifold gaskets and such.

When I ask for comments there will be positive and negative. I'd be looking for everything. Overall since my wife refuses to drive a minivan its a wagon we have. If I was buying a smaller SUV type of vehicle it would still be a Subaru for a few reasons.

1. Best thing for Snow/ice that I've driven.
2. Gets fairly good MPG for its size and drive train.
3. Decent resale (around here)
4. Reliable and safe.

But its more complex than most cars and harder to work on. For normal DIY stuff (ALL lubes, rotating tires, coolant change and such) its average.

Another point is if you have big feet, not much room in the front foot wells (I can not ride for more than 30 minutes in the passenger side) due to the AWD tunnel taking up room. Of course this is on our 2007 Outback which is not built anymore.

Just my points.

Bill

 

[meep]

I found all 3 subies I've owned to be the easiest of any car I've had to maintain. hands down, bar none. On the one's I knew, yes, you needed to cool the exhaust. but the filter was smack down on the clear bottom front of the engine. compare that to a honda six, buried in the wheelwell, a honda 4, under the intake, in front of the rack, above suspension and exhaust... take your pick. Plugs-- yes-- 3 bolts to remove airbox and 1-2 to pull the washer fluid tank, maybe. then zip zip zip. 2 valve covers, but easy to get to, and small, with a rubber-in-groove gasket that was reusable.

compare it to a nissan, honda, some fords.... unless the new ones have gotten bad, subies in my experience are great for home mechanics.... did t-belt and water pump and oil seal in 2.5 hrs (the second time, 4 hrs the first). I won't even attempt it in my wife's acura or mother's civic.

AWD for mine was maintenance free-- just change the lube at factory intervals. Some of the earlier auto's had AWD binding in turns--- not so much a maint problem than a design problem.